Angel S02 E07 – Flashback Solidarity

Previously: Wesley impersonated Angel and got laid doing it, so snaps for you. Angel met a murderous fake swami who pointed out important issues like, “Why would a vampire own a convertible in LA?”


Sweeney: Between today’s Buffy crossover magic and the fact that six episodes of Angel have already taught me that I knew nothing of Darla’s excellence from watching Buffy, this episode title has me legit excited already. It begins with Angel sketching Darla (hooray for the Angel/art ship!) and while I know a title like this will earn someone a proper gold star eventually, I give Angel’s sketch pad an honorable mention.

Lorraine: I think “Angel’s sketch pad” is the best almost gold star we’ve ever given. Good job.

Kirsti: A+. Also, Angel/art OTP.

Sweeney: Angel/Art is my OTP too. Look at us, agreeing on the important issues!

Wesley stands awkwardly in the doorway as Angel tries to make him go away by ignoring him, but Wes isn’t having it because they need to talk about the fact that Angel’s floor is now littered with these crazy sketches. Honorable mention for Angel’s floor, too! (L: Okay, don’t get crazy now.)

The episode’s namesake is sitting in Lindsey’s office, looking a depressed mess. Lindsey enters to find the office trashed and Darla’s wrists covered with stab marks. (K: I feel the need to point out that she got these from smashing a mirror, which explains a lot of what’s to come in the future) He inspects her wounds and says that they sent her to him too soon. Darla asks Lindsey about himself, before going all crazybabble about Angel. She says that after everything that happens they’ve now become something much worse than enemies: they’re soul mates. She laughs to tell us this episode’s going to be good. Roll electric cellos.

Lor: Leave it to Darla to make “soul mates” sound terrible.

Sweeney: After the credits we cut to 1609, which is honestly a bit later than I had assumed Darla was created. She’s in bed dying, surrounded by a few attendants, and sporting some death makeup that makes Faith’s coma makeup seem stunning. She wants the windows closed because STFU sun. After that, we hear the familiar voice of THE MASTER promising her that she’ll not see that sun again (LOL, cute) though we don’t see his face as he’s covered in priest’s robes. He’s also there to quickly give us some bonus back story: Darla was a prostitute in her pre-vamp days.

Lor: Who the hell would’ve ever guessed that THE MASTER! would warrant capslock? All it took was a sucky season 4 of Buffy, an Angel spinoff, and a sprinkling of crossover magic. Welcome back, ole fruit punch mouth!

K: 1430 to you, Lor. Although I will admit that my notes say “MARK METCALF!!!”, so I was equally excited to see him. But mostly because I’d forgotten all about this episode existing.

Sweeney: He asks if she’s ready to renounce Satan and Darla says that God has never done anything for her. The Master makes everyone leave so that he can “save her soul.” Darla jokes that the devil can have her now because she’ll be dead either way. They chat some more and she’s totally unspooked when he reveals his gross face and fruit punch mouth. He gets his bite on.


K: To be fair, she’s dying of syphilis, so her brain’s a little worse for wear.

Sweeney: I was initially confused by this comment, as I generally thought Darla was dying like a BAMF, but yes, there’s also the syphilis rotting her brain. True.

Back at Brooding HQ, Angel is urging the team to get with the Darla hunting as Cordelia and Wesley try to talk him out of it. Angel tries to insist that detecting the shit out of things is what they do and what they’re good at it. Cordelia’s all LOL, “That’s what we suck at.” Preach, girl. “Let’s face it: unless there’s a website called we’re pretty much out of luck.” Wesley’s suppressed laughter is adorable.

Lor: And where was this episode when we were thinking up website names, eh?

K: I love when they do stuff like that. Like Willow’s “What’s his number? Oh yeah, 1800-I’m-Dating-a-Skanky-Ho” in regards to Xander and Cordy’s relationship in season 2 of Buffy. 

Sweeney: Gunn standing in the background points out that they have to put Darla up somewhere and a law firm has undoubtedly figured out a way to write that off. (K: Gunn is the best. Also, does this count as foreshadowing???) (S: NEITHER ONE OF US CAN ANSWER THAT.) Cordelia and Wesley go into research mode and Angel mentions Darla’s love of places with a view to segue magic us back to 1760, when he is meeting The Master for the first time. Darla brags about Angelus and his conquests.

Angelus doesn’t get the whole living in the sewers thing and The Master boats about the Order of Aurelius laying waste to the earth. The Awfully Accented One goes on to ask why he’d want to do that. His point is about how things are pretty up above the sewers, though it’s another reminder of the end of BtVS S2, when Spike is concerned with Angelus destroying the world that he is generally quite fond of. Anyway, Angelus continues to offend The Master (and his horrendous face) and Darla tries to downplay his comments. The Master tosses Angelus across the room and beats him up a bit as he urges Darla to come with him, because he’ll give her everything.

The Master thinks he’s won, as he made Darla, but he can’t see Darla’s smitten expression behind him. When he does wise up, he lets them go, saying that it won’t last and he gives them a century, tops.

K: LOL. I wonder if The Master was secretly thrilled at how accurate his guess was further down the track.

Sweeney: Back in the present, Angel’s reading up on Darla and realizes that her name — which means “dear one” — would have been given to her by The Master. Wesley, meanwhile, is still urging Angel to give this up. He suggests that W&H’s objective in bringing Darla back was to keep Angel distracted; if that’s the case, it’s working.

Back at Lindsey’s office, Holland enters and asks for a private word with Lindsey. Holland says that they didn’t want Darla on the premises now that she’s made contact, and Lindsey tries to tell Holland about her suicidal streak. Holland already knows, though he thought it was coming later. He says they’ll be speeding things up and that Lindsey did the right thing, adding that he should keep sharp stuff away from her. Lindsey makes “DAFUQ?” face, leaving the viewer to wonder if he’s new around her or some shit.

Lor: To be fair, the Zoomy Camera Man was all up in his grill. Maybe he was giving him the DAFUQ face.

Sweeney: In 1880 London, Darla and Angelus are discussing their latest kill while Drusilla whines about being lonely. She also hilariously calls Darla grandmother, which she does not appreciate.

K: I loved that SO much. Having seen the two of them interact almost exclusively through Buffy episodes like Fool For Love (on account of I haven’t rewatched Angel since it first aired), this added another layer of awesomeness to the situation. Darla’s bitchface was priceless.

Sweeney: YES. AGREED. I don’t even care about the atrocity that is the accents and wigs, I could watch these flashback scenes all day. Angelus encourages Drusilla to make a playmate of her own, and they bump into WILLIAM THE BLOODY as he storms off from his party! Drusilla watches longingly as he runs off. This was some extra delightful crossover magic, because they include this scene in the Buffy version, but it’s easy to miss that it’s them if you didn’t already know. A+ for everyone.

Lor: I KNEW IT. I mostly recognized that terrible wig but I didn’t want to say anything because everyone is always calling me Lor Snow. My main point is that THIS WAS SO MUCH FUN.

K: Agreed. I hereby award all the things to Whedon because this crossover magic was spectacular. ESPECIALLY when you add in the fact that Fool for Love was written by Douglas Petrie, while Darla was written by Tim Minear. To make the crossover this flawless when you’ve got completely different writers? Genius. (Added fun fact? Douglas Petrie also wrote the screenplay for Harriet the Spy)

Sweeney: Those are indeed facts that are fun!

Back at Brooding HQ, Cordelia has found Darla’s location. Angel tries to tell her she doesn’t have enough information, and she reveals that she got her Veronica Mars on, getting confirmation by lying to the property manager about her missing sister. Angel smiles and snatches the address up, but Wesley intervenes, so that he and Gunn can go and they can all proceed with caution. Cordelia mentions that the address is in Sun Valley. Angel’s all, “LOL, sun” and Cordelia’s all, “No, valley! Ew.” I mention this only because Sun Valley is like The Valley of The Valley, a place that fully merits Cordelia’s, “Why would you go there if you don’t have to?

Darla, meanwhile is looking out Lindsey’s window AT THE VIEW! She’s a little confused when Lindsey enterounces her name. She says it sounds strange, as it wasn’t her name the first time she was human, though she doesn’t even remember what that name was. She asks Lindsey what they brought back, what she is – “The girl whose name I can’t remember? Or did you bring back something else? The other thing?” He nonanswers and she asks why he hasn’t kissed her, since she never hesitated when she wanted something. “Life’s too short. Believe me, I know. 400 years, and still too short.” With that, they kiss, briefly interrupted by her existential commentary about how they’re using her to get to Angel, and definitively cut off when she bites Lindsey’s neck hard enough to leave some serious marks when he won’t answer her question of what she is.

Lor: Creeeeeepy.

K: SRSLY. Lindsey needs to learn about Barney Stinson’s Hot/Crazy scale. Because Darla is totally in the Shelly Gillespie Zone…

Sweeney: Lindsey tries to tell Darla that he understands what she’s going through. That’s generally more annoying than comforting to people going through serious shit, but in this particular scenario that comment is pure bullshit and Darla says as much. She says she can feel this soul killing her.

With that, we segue magic back to Romania in 1898. She’s confronting the gypsy who cursed Angelus with a soul.

She promises to protect his family from the remaining trio’s massacre if the gypsy reverses the spell. Unfortunately, Spike appears, clearly having eaten them already. With that, Darla snaps the gypsy’s neck and tells the other two to show no mercy to whoever the hell is left at this point.

Lor: The Drusilla/Darla magic continues in this episode. Mostly, Darla’s reactions to everything Drusilla does is fantastic.

Sweeney: YES. Darla’s facial expressions are all gold.

K: Agreed. But this scene felt totally weird. Knowing that the gypsies had the power to curse Angel with a soul, why the hell would you go over there and be like “Hey, I’m also an evil vampire who may have contributed to the death of your daughter. It’d be really great if you could take away his pesky soul, because it’s getting in the way of our murdery funtimes?” That just seems moronic to me. That said, this scene was totally worth it for Dru’s “He shall be very cross if he finds we had a lovely mass slaughter without him.” I have further problems with this, because we established back in School Hard that Spike didn’t know about Angel having a soul, and yet HE WAS THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED. Either Darla pulled one HELL of a cover-up, or I should just write this off as a continuity problem and be done with it.

Sweeney: I’m 50/50 on what you’ve just said here. A solid +1 to the “Darla, this plan is stupid,” though I’ll cut her an inch of slack and blame the stupid on her grief/rage/feels, but yes, stupid. That said, it doesn’t seem inconsistent to me. Look at Spike in this scene and in both versions of the Boxer Rebellion events. How many fucks does he give what Angel is up to? He made it clear in FFL that he was obsessed with slayer murder by this time, and it doesn’t seem far-fetched to suppose that this obsession (and crazy sex times with Dru) were full-time occupations of his. Plus, why would he even consider vampire-soul-acquisition a thing (especially since knew so little that he’d only semi-recently learned about the slayer)? I don’t know if there is a future piece that I either don’t know or am forgetting, but it seems plausible that Darla ditched them around this time and returned to the Master and what reason would Spike have to know/suspect the why on this? This is a lot more sidebar speculation than I usually feel like getting into, but I’m just saying that this doesn’t feel like a continuity issue to me.

Back at Brooding HQ, Gunn and Wesley are showing the other two Darla’s destroyed apartment, which they’re convinced she did herself. She smashed all the mirrors and only Angel seems to see the reason why as obvious. (Meh. I think Wesley’s cleverer and more empathetic than this, but fine, show, I get why you’re downplaying that now.) She’s destroying all the mirrors because of the weight of this new “soul” thing — unlike Angel, she has to see herself in all the mirrors.

Angel and Wesley continue to bicker about how to proceed and ignore Cordelia trying to tell him that there’s a call for him. He finally takes the call when Cordelia starts to hang up on the caller — Darla. She asks Angel where she was, as she doesn’t recall going to any sort of hell. Angel assures her that there are, indeed, a few hells. Darla says that he’s the only one who understands (true), and adds that it’s been four centuries since she’s had to be afraid of anything. This was a nice callback to Spike’s comment about how slayers are the only thing vampires have to fear. (No mention of sunlight, crosses, and holy water, but whatever.)

K: To be fair, sunlight, crosses and holy water are unlikely to chase a vampire down, and are generally not carried around by members of the public. 

Sweeney: A very fair point.

As Darla is asking Angel to help her, we see Lindsey entering the office and telling Darla to put the phone down. A security guard just happens to appear seconds later, though Lindsey tries to make him go but he doesn’t. Eventually Darla knocks Lindsey out cold with the phone. We cut to Angel still listening in and hear a gunshot.

After a Not Commercial Break, Lindsey is being shown footage of her escape and reprimanded for facilitating her escape. Holland says the guard’s death has been Wolfram & Hart handled, and though they found Darla two blocks up the street, Lindsey is being taken off the project because it’s being terminated.

Cut to Angel setting off to handle this on his own because of reasons. Wesley’s still trying to talk him out of it, though Angel says that he knows what she’s going through (again!) and adds that she might, unlike him, not have to go through it alone. Cordelia’s defensive, “You’re not alone,” followed by a lovely, extended exchange of feelstastic looks between the two of them as Wesley keeps talking makes for a wonderful little moment.

Lor: I squee’d a little bit, NGL.

K: I was mostly distracted by Cordy’s suddenly gigantic hair…

Sweeney: I was distracted by it earlier in the episode too. I don’t even understand. I guess she got shitty hair in flashback solidarity?

Wesley points out that Angel wandered for 100 years without ever seeking redemption. Angel’s response, “That’s right; I sought her,” segue magics us back to China in 1900. Pause for another moment of appreciating the excellence of this crossover magic. When I got to this scene in Fool For Love I was SO confused as to why Angel was there because even though I couldn’t remember the year Angel got his soul, I thought it was 18something and didn’t get why he was with the gang in 1900. I let it go, though, assuming that I just had my dates wrong and was too lazy to look it up. More on this in a second.

We see Darla in another totally awesome HBIC wig, and a very gross Angel sneaks up and puts his dirty nasty hands all over her pretty face. She threatens to kill him and he tells her to go ahead, but she can’t do it. He says he’s there to make things like what they were because soul or not, he’s still a vampire and can be what he was if she lets him prove it. “We can have the whirlwind back.” They kiss.

In the Wolfram & Hart parking garage, Lindsey is making a call as he walks to his car. Angel appears behind him with some conveniently placed torture-hanging rope, demanding Darla’s whereabouts.

Lor: I’d like to think Angel took some time out of his very busy schedule to arrange the torture rope himself. Yeah.

Sweeney: Lindsey can’t really speak to answer, so he holds up his cellphone so that Angel can hear that Lindsey was calling Angel’s office. A little more torturing info out of Lindsey, who gives Angel an address he can’t confirm, but assumes they’ll take Darla there to get their murder on.

Back in 1900 China, Angel is wandering the streets looking for Darla when he happens upon a family of missionaries with a crying baby. He lets them go and runs off to find Darla, keeping her from going back to the alley where they family is. Then we get the post-slayer-murder scene we saw in Fool For Love. Continuing my earlier comments: they are heavily playing up Angel brood in this scene. I assumed (and was relieved when Kirsti said the same) that this was just, “Damn, you killed a slayer and I didn’t!” brood. As with before, this is downright crossover genius because it allows us to see the same scene in different ways. I love this. I sincerely hope that even non-Angel Buffy watchers add this episode to their rotation, because it’s such a wonderful companion to Fool For Love.

Lor: AAACK. I didnt’ even catch the date over on Fool For Love, so this was all kinds of magical. Even the line at the end where he’s all, “let’s get out of here,” says so much more now that we know he was souled.

K: Seriously. I’ve seen Fool For Love about 20 times, and have NEVER picked up on the fact that the Boxer Rebellion took place after that whole pesky re-ensouling thing. This really IS crossover genius, and it fills things out so much more watching the two episodes in parallel.

Sweeney: We once again get the dramatic villain walk that everyone loves so much. Sorry not sorry: it’s still hilarious to me. This one was even funnier because we got extended shots of Angel’s terrible wig billowing in the wind.

Lor: His hair was his first coat. It’s adorbs. AND HILARIOUS.

K: I will agree that the Billowy Hair of Pain slow-mo was hilarious. But I will never admit defeat on Spike’s barrel jump.

Sweeney: I accept that Traumateers will defend 99.9% of Spike’s actions for the rest of forever. I love you all for it.

Darla voiceovers, “Are you with me, Angel? Why aren’t you with me?” as she is being thrown from a van at gun point. After a Not Commercial Break, we flashback again, to Darla asking where Angel has been. She says he was probably feeding on vermin, and adds that the only men she has seen him kill are evil-doers. In order to prove that he is what he was, she’s going to make the baby he found before.

As she orders him to act, we segue magic to Angel’s car pulling into the basement (garage?) of W&H murder. He jumps out and gets his fight on, quickly taking out the three white jumpsuited assassins. Why are their murder uniforms white? Is there enough bleach in the world for that?

Back at Wolfram & Hart, Lindsey spots Holland talking to the guard he thought was dead and quickly puts together that he’s been mindfucked by Wolfram & Hart again. Holland explains that the bullshit was necessary because of reasons and now Darla and Angel believe the threat was real and Angel will do his thing and try to save Darla’s soul. This whole Darla thing has proven to be the most convoluted villain plan in the history of villain plans. WHAT ARE YOU DOING? There are so many places for this plan to fail and I still don’t entirely get the point.

Lor: But weee! Darla! And wigs! And.. and, yeah, fuck it. Worst murder plot ever.

K: Seriously. If the aim of the game was to kill Angel, why not just have someone else use the Magic Purple Powder to keep him asleep, and then STAKE HIM? And if the aim was to screw with his mind, why not make him dream that he was with Buffy? Not only would it be more effective, but that pesky soul would have disappeared pretty damned fast, and then you’ve got Angelus on hand, who’d probably be happy to join the W&H fold. In short, I don’t think they thought this one through properly…

Sweeney: This is just a small, small sampling of this plan’s failings. We could do this shit all day.

Back at Brooding HQ, it is suggested that Darla be taken to a hospital. LOL, dealing with actual professionals rather than having our characters magically solve shit themselves. Cute idea! Cordelia’s annoyed with Darla addressing Angel as Angelus. He asks them all to leave.

Darla tells Angel that she’s lucky to have someone who understands and knows, then perceptively adds that he didn’t have that. She says that she knew that he would help her if she could only get to him. “You’ll make the pain stop, won’t you?” He tells her that it takes time, and she says it takes moments, revealing her neck. Angel’s all, “Uh, no! Not like that!” She freaks out and panics this scene is perfection.

SO MUCH happening here. Angel having some jealous and resentful feels mixed in with his other feels. Darla’s desperation to go back to the only life she remembers. The flashback stuff is what makes this episode, but this is far and away my favorite of the present day scenes in this episode.

She switches gears and tells him to pay her back and get revenge. Angel’s “I can’t” takes us back to the confrontation in China. He says he can’t seem to be what he’s not and apologizes. Darla says he disgusts her and he grabs the baby and runs off. In the present day, Darla runs out on Angel, telling him not to look for her.

You guys. So much win just happened here. First, Julie fucking Benz. I can’t get over the awesome we just got in a total sidebar character. While Fool For Love showed us part of how human William shaped who Spike is, this episode was a great foil by showing us nearly the opposite in Darla. She doesn’t even remember her human name and after living 400 years as a vampire she has no idea how to be anything else. I love that these two episodes go hand in hand, not only for the way the flashback scenes compliment each other, but also for the way those two character portraits go together. It emphasizes the complexity of the vampire characters in a really great way.

As a total package, this episode had more flaws than Fool For Love (only the cemetery scene with the Scoobies comes to mind) in that I could have done without all of Holland’s scenes and really only appreciated Lindsey’s for Darla; his character still feels like a plot device to me. That said, I still loved it, mostly because of how well these two episodes fit together. This was utterly brilliant. I can’t get over my general feelings of admiration for Whedon & Friends for what they just did here.

Lor: +1 to all you said. I also like that Darla puts Angel’s brood into perspective. There is only so much we can be fed Angel’s eternal misery, but Darla really colors his experience and it’s amazing that we get to see it through Julie Benz’s phenomenal performance.

K: As much as I loved Julie Benz’s performance, I’m still a little stuck on “…Why the hell would you ask Angel to turn you? Surely he’s at the bottom of the list when it comes to vampires who would willingly do that?” So yeah. I loved the crossover magic, and the fact that the two episodes give us the chance to see scenes from both perspectives. And I loved getting Darla’s back story. But she’s clearly been taking Terrible Plans 101 while she was hanging out at Wolfram & Hart. Because yeah. Worst plan ever…

Sweeney: Yes and no. Terrible plan, but bitch is clearly a little batshit at this point. All of her present day scenes in this episode are about the degree to which her new human existence has been traumatic for her while concurrently setting up that her relationship with Angel played a major role in her 400 years. Stupid idea, yes, but it makes some sense that she did it.

Though she probably did sit in on one or two lessons of W&H’s Terrible Plans 101.


Next time on Angel: The gang get themselves involved in a museum heist, which goes even worse than you’d expect. Find out all the details in  S02 E08 – The Shroud of Rahmon

Sweeney (all posts)

I collect elaborate false eyelashes, panda gifs, and passport stamps. I spend too much time on YouTube. Reconciling my aversion to leaving the house/wearing pants with my deep desire to explore everything is my life's great struggle.

Marines (all posts)

I'm a 20-something south Floridan who loves the beach but cannot swim. Such is my life, full of small contradictions and little trivialities. My main life goals are never to take life too seriously, but to do everything I attempt seriously well. After that, my life goals devolve into things like not wearing pants and eating all of the Zebra Cakes in the world. THE WORLD.

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  • Anagnorisis

    Angel Darla (lol OTP)
    Wow, Angel, you are a little obsessed.
    “You have a girlfriend? Boyfriend?” I can not say how much I love this. Thank you Darla for not being heteronormative. See? She is evil and she gets it better than half of the people I know.
    Soul-mates, get it? And she laughts at her own joke. Best.
    The Master! HI 🙂 I missed you ** OMG this exists!!! I love you Internet.
    Lol Angelus, don’t ruin the Master’s dramatic speech.
    I do wonder what Darla’s real name was. It is one of the mysteries of life. Like the real name of 99.
    “Or you could just take the first drooling idiot that comes along” This is the best crossover ever. This is the best thing that could ever happen ever. This scene! Everything. The foreshadowing! Perfect.
    Cordy, you are the best. haha, sun.
    yay Darla/Lindsey
    “It’s not me you want to screw, it’s him” Yes, please. And can we watch?
    Well, that was kind of hot.
    Lindsey/Phone NOTP.
    Aww, he came back even if he had a soul. Cute.
    That Lindsey/Angel scene was also kind of hot.
    This scene at the boxer rebellion It’s the same scene but with a different perspective. Ugg, this is so good it hurts.
    And the Power Walk again. And it’s still awesome shut up lol
    If you are so evil, then eat this baby.
    And the parallels in this two scenes!
    I’m done. I don’t know what to say. This is too good.
    I’ve watched this episode before, once I knew I had to, since it completed Fool For Love. I did it before I watched this firsts seasons of Ats, and even if it’s great on its own, I’m glad that I have context now.

    • Jojo

      Fantastic link – and cavemen are winning!

      • Anagnorisis

        But human race has evolved!
        lol indeed

        • Jojo

          You just want it to be what you want it to be!! 😀

    • SnazzyO

      I concur w/ sorry not sorry on defending the power walk because it’s the culmination of CROSSOVER GENIUS.

      And how much do I love that Whedon “took a level” and raised crossover magic to crossover genius by taking the same power walk and completely shifting POV across two different shows!

      • The Power Walk was well played…. BUT FUNNY YOU GUYS. IT WAS FUNNY. I feel like I’m trolling my own website with these power walk comments. Sorry.

        I love your #1 and I can’t wait.

        #2 – LOL. Aw, Xander. I mean, he’s gotten better. I never thought to rank characters this way, but I feel I should wait. And look at B so down low on your list!! This breaks my heart. I love Buffy.

        • SnazzyO

          Don’t feel bad for B. She gets lots of love from me and everyone else. And you are right to wait until all 7 Seasons of Buffy, 5 Seasons of Angel and three seasons of comics.

          • Jojo

            Power Walk was funny in the same way the Princess Bride was funny. We love it – it was glorious. But it was wonderfully over the top and I still love it but I can see funny!

          • The Princess Bride was long listed as my favorite movie of all time (back when I was decisive enough to make such lists) so I accept this and agree.

        • Melbourne on my Mind

          Buffy’s the Harry Potter of BtVS. Everyone loves her, but I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who considers her their favourite character.

          • geff

            Usually I just lurk on the Angel posts since I’m only now forcing myself to really watch the series all the way through and I don’t have much to say about it yet. I know it’s obnoxious to comment just to defend a character on a different show but Buffy’s my absolute favorite. <3

            Also I feel like I'm missing something because I'm not really understanding the brilliance in this episode. I dunno, I think I just find it difficult to connect to/sympathize with vampire characters like Darla and Angel.

          • SnazzyO

            I think the character of Buffy single-handedly inspired MILLIONS. I don’t think you are alone whatsoever in your Buffy love. Her character has changed lives.

            I’m a redemption junkie. So I sympathize with dark characters who are sincerely trying to do good.

          • Fair!

          • Hey lurker! Man, I love lurkers.

            And your comment is not obnoxious at all, because I love Buffy and while I’m not done with the series, she may well end up as my favorite character as well. Or, I mean, she’s sort of in a different class than all the other supporting characters, much like Harry Potter is. All of these other characters get to be who they are, and develop the way they do IN Buffy’s story, right? I mean, I get why people would pick other characters (I LOVE Giles and Willow so much) but ranking them above Buffy? IDK. We’ll see.

            A lot of the brilliance for me was not about sympathizing with the characters at all. I loved the story telling more than anything else, and the way the episode was crafted to overlap with the Buffy one. I love that it ties up pieces of these we’ve been fed for seasons on Buffy. But I’m a sucker for back story. 😉

          • Clément Polge

            For me, it goes like this:
            1. everyone except Riley
            2. Riley
            Negative infinty. Gunn

            Seriously though, I’m completely unable to rank them. I want to put Wesley number one, and then I think “but… but… Lorne… Willow…”, and I honestly can’t decide.

            Agreed with what you say on Buffy though, the main character is always a special case and in its own category.

          • Jojo

            I guess for me it would be

            1)Spike & Wes
            2)Angel & Giles
            3)Willow & Buffy &Tara
            Oh my!

            My favorites get clumpy – I kind of like character interactions so one person with another person will raise and lower ratings. And my mood, and how much sleep I got and all sorts of – I think I’m just too fluid. No one stays where I put them. But Wesley and Spike both have really awesome arcs!

          • I wouldn’t say that it’s about sympathizing with Darla. (I do sympathize with Angel, though not Angelus… and ugh, I don’t even want to get into all that.) For me, I love this episode because of all the backstory and context. Darla is still majorly evil, and I think it’s really fascinating for the way the Buffyverse deals with good and evil to have her struggling with her new human existence, since she’s only ever known herself to be this evil vampire and she doesn’t even know what they brought back, exactly.

            I love this episode more for the interesting depth it adds to the story than because I sympathize with Darla.

          • Disa

            I actually sympathize with Angelus in some places. All that time trying to eradicate his father’s negative opinion of him…wow.

        • Melodie Hatley

          Huh. I really don’t like Buffy. I don’t dislike her either. I’m very neutral on the subject of Buffy. She gets very whiny and entitled at some points, but then she turns it around and BAMFs. Maybe it would be safe to say there are parts about Buffy I love, and parts I don’t?

          And Xander is one of my favorites too. He’s a jerk, but he’s the only one of the three to not get super powers in some way, so he does all he does with the Scoobies just being Xander. There are a LOT of good characters in the Buffy/Angel universe though, a lot of them. My favorite will always be Wes, but 2nd and 3rd place? Uhhh… 4th and 5th? Uuuuuuhhhh… how do I rate them??? It’s unpossible!

          • Disa

            I think I’d have to say that there are writers of Buffy I love and writers of Buffy I don’t.

          • We’ve mentioned the writers a few times but I still haven’t paid all THAT much attention to them, but this is a really good point. Once we’re all done with this it’ll be interesting to match different thoughts/feels up with their respective writers…

          • I’d love to go back and look at Marti Noxon. I’ve seen people blame a lot of season 4 on her and I don’t know why, but it’s on my to-do list to look into it once I can’t be spoiled.

          • Disa

            That’s a very good idea. I’m not a Noxon fan–not in this series or any other. I think she has a theme and sticks with it. It’s easy to see when you pull out the list of episodes she wrote.

      • I don’t even know how to process the fact that Buffy is #10 on your list. I CAN’T EVEN HANDLE THIS.

        • After I wrote my I LOVE BUFFY, I was scared to be all alone. I’m glad I have you Sweeney.

          • SnazzyO

            So let me ‘splain. I LOVE BUFFY. I really do. I love people who would be # 13 & 14 on the list. So you have to understand that these people are so very high in the “love” scale that it’s ridiculous.

            As to why Buffy is lower than some side character? Well honestly I think some of the side characters have better arcs or moments that I really like. Sometimes it really sucks to be the protagonist. Like remember when Buffy was not the best friend towards Willow for a little while? It’s not ACTUALLY Buffy’s fault. The writers wanted her to be a little insensitive. I get that. I really do. Look at my #2. He’s Mr.-Impossible-To-Defend guy. So, they all suffer. But there are aspects of their characters that drive where they are in the list. Like Lorne is up there because he is CONSISTENTLY FABULOUS. ALWAYS. He doesn’t have to carry the plot, he just gets to quip his way through the scene.

            Buffy is more badass fantastic than everyone else (except Angel who’s got a dark edge that makes him a little more badass sometimes even though I think Buffy has not only defeated him once but could do so again). So…I do love her.. I think she suffers from protagonist-related plots sometimes.

          • Oh yes! I replied above somewhere before I read this, but this is what I was thinking. Buffy being the protagonist means that her character suffers in some ways, and some of the supporting characters more often get to be the fun ones.

      • Anagnorisis

        Who is your number 1?! I’m intrigued!! (someone who hasn’t been introduced yet and you think you’ll be alone? I’ve found sites defending Riley, so you’ll be surprised).
        And I tend to like two characters that most people hate, maybe it’s one of them? lol
        I don’t have a top 10 Buffy/Angel characters, but I should! Buffy, Cordelia, Wesley, Spike, Lorne and Lilah (and two characters that look really similar but are yet to come lol) are in my top 50 favorite characters of anything ever. But I still need to figure the order.

        • SnazzyO

          I think people can translate Rot13 in their heads so you’ll just have to wait. I’ll make it clear when the character shows.

          • Clément Polge

            I don’t think people can REALLY read rot13, I think it’s mostly when you know the future, and have a guess at what the person is saying, you can sort of guess by seeing the number of letters to each word and the eventual capitalization of the first letter for names, and try to guess-create back the sentence… But really translating it in your head, no.

          • SnazzyO

            You’re probably right about direct translating but some character strings are so oft-repeated that it’s almost like translating.

          • Disa

            Unless it’s a tricky or unusual word, I can read it.

          • Anagnorisis

            Fair, I can read some names, especially since I’m used to seeing them over Mark Watches (and a few of them are hilarious). I’ll wait then.
            I hope it is one I also like so I won’t be alone defending them XD

          • Disa

            Most of us who can read ROT13 can also be spoiled with impunity. Spoil me. I love it. 😉

    • As much I love Ange/art, all them crazy Darla drawings were a little crazy, yeah?

      The website is great just because it exists. It also helped (in a way) spawn off our next little project so that’s exciting.

      It’s cute you guys keep defending the power walk. I mean it is awesome, in a HAHAHAHA way. 😉

      The crossover magic was so much fun in this one. I’m happy you thought so too.

    • Melbourne on my Mind

      Oh my God, that link is amazing.

  • Jojo

    They can’t kill him, and they can’t bring out Angelus. Prophecy of contrivance insists on souled vampire having big part in apocalypse. The Apocalypse – not the weekly ones in Sunnydale.

    • Raluca

      Exactly. And it’s their plan to keep him EXACTLY as he is, but screw with him as much as possible in the mean time. And soon we’ll learn why… can’t mention here, because of spoilers 😀
      I really like this episode, especially the parallels with Fool for Love – how we get to see Spike’s POV and then Angel’s POV and how much they really differ 😀

      • Jojo

        They’re not friends. They’ll never be friends. They’ll fight and they’ll shag – and they’ll hate each other til it makes them quiver but they’ll never be friends.

        • Raluca

          :)) guys, you have a very vivid imagination Spangel-wise :D. I like you! 😛

          • Jojo

            😀 The quote does sum it up nicely, does it not….just turn your head a bit to the right and you’ll see it. <3

            I like you right back! 😀

          • Jojo

            It just occurred to me – you all do know that Spike/Angel is canon, right?
            I think people tend to forget that the Spike/Angel relationship is
            also a canon relationship even if network standards didn’t allow it to be explored.

            Whedon was asked about Spangel and said that ‘hell yeah vamp Angel and Spike slept together – lot’s of times’; All family members had sex in various combinations – lot of daylight to waste. This is where it becomes seen how the Spike/Angel relationship evolved and why, just as it is for Spike/Dru, and Angel/Darla.

          • Clément Polge

            For some reason, I don’t really see it. These two have a sort of “alpha dog” dynamic, with angel being the alpha and Spike being the underdog trying to get his stripes/be approved by the gang, so I can’t really see them getting intimite one-on-one.

            I have no problem seeing them together with Darla and/or Dru though. So yes, they had sex together, just maybe not together-together.

            Also, another reason: V erzrzore frrvat va n synfuonpx gung Fcvxr jnf va ybir jvgu Qeh, naq jnf snvgushy gb ure, hagvy ur pnzr onpx bar qnl naq sbhaq ure orvat abg-fb-snvgushy jvgu Natry. Xvaqn xvyyf gur cebfcrpg bs gur gjb orpbzvat vagvzngr, Fcvxr pyrneyl erfragrq Natry sbe gung.

            I have no problem seeing them having gay sex either, just not with one another.

          • I’m with you on this Polge. If/when they ever had sex, I think it was hate-sex.

            I think I’m siccing the Spangel crowd on myself.

          • Jojo

            Hate-sex was probably on the menu. Also, I feel good when I do this and I don’t give a damn about you. I assume Darla could also have some pretty great hate sex – these were demons. Not likely to do it in separate rooms with established partners and the door closed.

          • Jojo

            Intimate in the “I care about you ” sense – probably not. Intimate in the “I am alpha and you are pissing me off so I will dominate you” way – I can see that. Besides – canon is canon. Eventually there are episodes where Joss had to explain the endings, and his word on that is accepted as canon – this is kinda the same.

          • SnazzyO

            Jojo The Spangel canon quote from Josh did not come out at this point – it comes out later. So… I think you are SEEING the canon but it hasn’t been confirmed until after more episodes aired.

            Also, the efficacy of the plot that the snark squad thinks is stupid is based on future clarifications (intentionally vague) so… I think they get to think it’s stupid, until they realize it isn’t.

          • Indeed! I’m picking that up from other people’s comments. I had this happen to me too when Dawn was introduced and I was all LAME. THIS IS SO LAME. A few episodes later, I had to retract my statements. I will be prepared to do so again, should it come down to that.

            Thanks for keeping us spoiler free!

          • Jojo

            Well, this was more general – not geared toward the Squad. And since I came on board late (Introduced to Buffy and Angel after the shows were cancelled), the quote existed at the same time as viewing the show….like it does now. But I don’t think anyone was gonna do a reveal once the quote was quoted (was it after the run of the show?) and I don’t see it as a spoiler. I did wait until the history is shown to throw that our because this is the time Joss referred to.

          • SnazzyO

            Absolutely fair. See paragraph below where I think in-show confirmation is given.

            Vg’f va gur svsgu frnfba bs Natry gung V guvax Fcvxr fnlf “gung bar gvzr” be Natry fnlf vg — guhf znxvat vg hanzovthbhfyl pnaba. Ohg V qvqa’g jnag gb fnl svsgu frnfba bs Natry orpnhfr rira gub gur fghcvq QIQf ner pbirerq jvgu gur oyrnpurq bar’f ivfntr, V’z qrfcrengryl ubcvat gung gurer’f n yrnfg 2 qnlf gurl guvax gung ur’f qrnq. Qbrf gung znxr zr pehry?

            But you are also correct that Doug Petrie (another show guy for those who don’t know all their names) said the language of this episode was supposed to lead you to Spangel as canon.

          • Clément Polge

            To answer your rot13 question: yes. Yes it does. To expand on that answer:

            V jngpurq Ohssl naq Natry n srj lrnef ntb, fb obgu fubj jrer ybat raqrq ng gung gvzr, naq fvapr V qvqa’g ernyyl yvxr Natry ba Ohssl, V qrpvqrq gb fxvc uvf fubj. Fb ng gur raq bs gung frnfba 7, V jnf qrinfgngrq gb frr Fcvxr qvr. V erzrzore znqyl oebjfvat jvxvcrqvn gb svaq bhg vs gurer rire jnf n punapr bs uvz pbzvat onpx, ohg vg jnfa’g rire ernyyl pyrne…

            Fb sbe zr, gur jnvg jnf fhcre ybat, orpnhfr V unq gb jngpu nyy 4 frnfbaf bs Natry orsber trggvat gb frnfba 5 naq SVANYYL trggvat onpx jvgu oybaqvr orne. Gur cnlbss jnf pbzcyrgryl jbegu vg gubhtu.

            Naq V pna’g vzntvar gur gbegher gubfr crbcyr jngpuvat gubfr fubjf ng gur gvzr unq gb tb guebhtu, gurl unq gb jnvg zbaguf. ZBAGUF.

          • SnazzyO

            Guilty. But in this universe it’s only 2 days.

          • Jojo

            V fb jnag uvz gb or frra nf qrnq – fb V haqrefgnaq. Xvaq bs haqrephgf gur fnpevsvpr vs lbh xabj ur’f tbaan yvir. OGJ – ybir gur jnl gur Natry erpnc phgf bhg gur Ohssl ‘V ybir lbh’. Gb zr gung jnfa’g ebznagvp – vg jnf n pnyyonpx gb Fcvxr’f enyylvat fcrrpu (V ybir jub lbh ner, jung lbh qb.)

            Nf sbe gur npghny dhbgr – vg raqf ng “gung bar….” Purpx gur fpevcg. Fb vg pbhyq or bar gvzr – be bar qrpnqr – be bar gvzr fvapr trggvat fbhyf. Bapr ntnva gurl yrsg vg bcra gb vagrecergngvba.

          • SnazzyO


          • Disa

            Just that once. XD

          • Jojo

            …quote from Joss Whedon from the DVD commentary:“They were hanging out for years and years and years and years. They were all kinds of deviant, they were vampires. Are we thinking they never…? Come on people, I’m just saying. I’m just saying. They’re open-minded guys. They may be evil, but they’re not bigoted or close-minded.”

            Purpx gur fpevcg – “whfg gung bar…..” Pbhyq or gvzr – be jrrx – be qrpnqr – be? Naq vf ungr frk vagvzngr? Vg’f whfg xvaqn hc sbe zber guna bar vagrecergngvba. 8)

          • Disa

            Oh yes. I know. Love that bit–and the Whedon quote, too.

          • Raluca

            I do know Spike/Angel is canon, of course. And I am sure Whedon would have explored it, had the network standards allowed him to 😀 (would’ve been nice to see :D)
            Now I gotta focus on work, so I’ll stop thinking about it… stopping now… now… 😀 (not working very well, this stopping part… :D)

          • Jojo

            He did say he wanted to explore it more but cancellations and stuff got in the way. 🙁

            See the pretties. See the pretties take off their clothes. See the pretties do naked together stuff…..then take cold shower – rinse – repeat….see the pretties. 😀

      • But also, yes, this: I’m sure we’ll learn more soon. Please in the mean time deal with Lor and Sweeney Snow questioning all the crazy plots and plans. WE KNOW NOTHING, etc.

        • Jojo

          Is okay to know – not a spoiler. Like SnazzyO says: Doug Petrie (another show guy for those who don’t know all their names) said the language of this episode was supposed to lead you to Spangel as canon.

          • Jojo

            I Spangel therefore I must speak….sorry….beating horse that is bleeding and…but…must….cannot resist…..

            Angel has already dusted Penn and Darla – however Spike came down to LA and tortured the living shit out of him and there was no retaliation even though Spike is about an hour or so away.

            When Spike came to Sunnydale – Angel warned everyone that he was a real force, but then made no effort to contain him or get rid of him. He talked to Dru – the crazy one…and that may have been a search for information from the seer. He asked them to leave – no follow-up. Spike keeps dogging Buffy and the Scoobs, and Angel knows where he is – but he does nothing.

            When he saw Spike in Lover’s Walk – after Spike beat holy hell out of him and left him to go to hell by conspiring with Buffy – he spent much of the episode protecting Spike from Buffy – even getting between them when she pulls out a stake. Not only that but Spike takes it as a given that Angel will protect him. He is drunk – he has kidnapped Scoobies – Angel could easily dust Spike and sniff out Scoobs. But he let’s Spike leave unharmed.

            When Angelus was released, one of the first things he did was kiss Spike – yes on the forehead – but look how long it took to allow Tara and Willow a lip kiss. Only male-male kiss in the Whedonverse. In fact, another interpretation of the whole miserable time for Spike was not just that Angelus took Dru but that he didn’t take Spike – just shut him out.

            My point – there is a bond that is complex. I will go retire gracefully and obsess in my obsession closet now.

    • I haven’t thought about the prophecy ever again since it hasn’t really been mentioned. I guess this makes sense? I mean, perhaps I’ll wait and see what Angel’s supposed role will be in the apocalypse because I can’t imagine they’d want to keep him around if he’s gonna, you know, stop it.

      Still, “let’s fuck with his emotions!” is a bit of a convoluted plan. Let’s poison him with purple stuff and lock him up until just before the apocalypse is a better one, yeah? Just off the top of my head.

      • Jojo

        But they want him so screwed up he will take their side. The vampire with a soul will be essentially the deciding factor in the apocalypse – the prophecy says it’s up in the air what side he will be on. So they have to have him souled and dark and on their side. It’s a long term game. Killing him or getting rid of the prophecy may make them lose – because it may be that they need him dark or they will lose.

        • I’ll keep watching Jojo. I’m marking this all, “not enough information” for now, but also I think I’d be the worst plan maker/revenge plotter ever because all this emotional warfare is exhausting. 😉

          • Jojo

            Yes – that is why it is Contrivance prophecy – in order to be the reason for a plan that will power the evil guys but not allow them to just dust Angel. In real world – yeah, no. But in world of PoC – EVIL wants you dark but not toasty!

  • Jojo

    Hey, K – Darla was dusted and then she was brought back human. And even as a vamp she tended to give the orders and someone else would take care of her. Besides Order of Aurelius vs vamp in the alley? I think she just went for comfort and knew Angel would do whatever she ordered given their long history….which for some deranged reason was going through her head that day. 😀

    Yeah, Darla is a sweet ice bitch and she loves her boy. The funny thing is that the way Angelus acted with the Master is pure unadulterated Spike – just watch it. Getting thrown, laughing, blustering and baiting…..

    I so totally hate the history that I will do a small rant here. First – if Darla was living in that sort of house in colonial America (and not killed for whoring) then Buffy’s was not the first vagina of magic that Angel experienced. That is luxury beyond compare. Next – the Cecily scene in FFL was at an expensive whorehouse according to the way the women dressed and talked. (A Darla connection that wasn’t….) As for the real first souling – I know there is a scene somewhere that shows Darla telling Dru and Spike show them no mercy, then getting pissed because they killed everyone. I hope that isn’t a spoiler – can’t see how it would be. So I gather Spike and Dru were pretty oblivious – like the Chinese food daze at a huge all-you-can-stuff-inside eatery.

    Yeah, never really like Lindsey, and Holland is just annoying. But part of what this all points out is – like you guys said – these 4 living on such an epic scale. Now you begin to see how small blond Buffy who speaks her mind and kicks ass may have already been a template already established. And, as a Spangel I must point out that small blond Spike is another version of the same template but one Angel can dominate – which adds another layer back in season 2. It’s like another doorway closer to the entire real story – the bigger story.

    • Raluca

      Actually, I think Holland Manners makes quite a good villain. He is just the right amount of creepy and nice 😀

      • darkalter2000

        I think the word you are looking for is ‘polite’, not ‘nice’. Imagine having him as your boss, without the killing even, and tell me he is ‘nice’.

        • Raluca

          LOL exactly! English is not my first language, so I sometimes have trouble finding the perfect word. 😀 Thanks for pointing it out! Of course I meant “polite”!

  • Clément Polge

    On the gipsy slaughter flashback: I think Darla’s plan was really just “undo the curse or we’ll kill your whole family”, but she was probably plyaing that pretty close to the chest, so she probably didn’t warn Dru or Spike about her true intentions, hence Dru’s comment about Angel’s being cross at missing a slaughter.

    And Spike coming out of that trailer burping right after Darla’s threat is just A+.

    And Kirsti, your remark about Darla asking Angel to turn her will actually be adressed ! Next episode is a fun one, and the one after that will adress that, and is incidentally one of my favourite Angel episode.

    • I totally buy that Darla was sharing details of her master plan with Dru and Spike. She spent most of the episode rolling her eyes at them, ya know? She clearly feels pretty confident in her bad-assery. I mean, as a human, she threatened the actor playing her husband last episode, she bites Lindsey, she tells him Darla would snap him in half… She clearly has some balls.

      The gypsy scene was worth it for the little burp.

  • Jojo

    I will no longer call you Lor Snow because you must be brave and risk failure. So, I’m gonna call you Lorraine Snow when you know nothing. Have we just had a bonding moment? Did we evolve?

    • It’s cool I called myself Lor Snow up there ^^^^ before I got to this comment here.

      Are you shivering because we’re naked in a Wildling cave? Wait, what just happened here?

      • Jojo

        Wilding cave is good. 🙂

  • K: I was mostly distracted by Cordy’s suddenly gigantic hair…

    Sweeney: I was distracted by it earlier in the episode too. I don’t even understand. I guess she got shitty hair in flashback solidarity?

    I’m pretty sure that’s a wig. As you’ll be able to see from the next episode.

    • Please expect a hair update accordingly.

  • SnazzyO

    I love new insights! I can’t believe that I didn’t realize Darla may not have been forthcoming about Angel’s state w/ Dru & Spike until you guys mentioned it. I don’t know if it’s a retcon but I think Spike is not all that clear on what happened w/ Angel before they go to the Romania camp. And I think he’s clear in S2 but not exactly sure how it works? I think School Hard is the moment Spike realizes its for realz – hence his “Uncle Tom” hissy fit.

    I love this – as much as FFL, because of the intensity of the the “You damned me” moment. I think you have to take both episodes as a set. It’s not just Spike and Darla’s backstory, it’s Angel’s as well. We see how wrapped up he was in Darla. So wrapped up that he tried to live a grey kind of life by feeding on bad people. But Darla just couldn’t stand the smell of soul I think. It also recast the episode “Angel” in a new light. He REALLY threw his lot in with Buffy-as-his-redemption because he dusted DARLA. Now at the time I’m certain Whedon didn’t have it all worked out but the genius is it STILL WORKS. As we saw Angel perving on Buffy when she was 15, he saw Buffy as his salvation. So it wasn’t love for Buffy that made him dust Darla, it was hope for redemption. And after the “you damned me”, perhaps a little revenge?

    As for stupid plan .. let me say it’s a lot more complicated but stupid plan is less stupid as the season goes on. And if that makes no sense, I’ll make it less stupid with more explanation as the season progresses. Holland Manners plays the LONG CON.

    “Why are their murder uniforms white? Is there enough bleach in the world for that?”
    Most excellent snark.

    Uggh. Cordy’s hair. I liked it this episode but it needs it’s own trailer at some point because it has become a character on it’s own.

    • I mentioned it before, but yes, I like this whole idea of Darla not spreading the Angel-soul thing. I’ll accept this.

      I keep making notes of things I want to revisit once I know the whole future. Angel dusting Darla is a detail I had forgotten. I remembered that she was killed obviously, but I’m fuzzy on the who/what/when/where. It makes it so much RICHER knowing Darla’s backstory, seeing her back with the Master and sort of… under his thumb and all. Add to that the dusting by Angel, and yes, genius, even if it’s later addition genius.

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. The comments have told us that we should wait a little longer before calling it the stupidest plan ever. Sorry guys! We snarked too soon.

      Cordy’s Hair will have it’s own tag, at least. AT LEAST.

      • SnazzyO

        Ooohhh excellent point about being under the Master’s thumb. How pissed off she must have been to have to answer to him again now that her “stallion’ had been lost.

    • Jojo

      I think School Hard is the moment Spike realizes its for realz – hence his “Uncle Tom” hissy fit – I agree. I also think it’s that long sniff when they embrace that finally tips him off.

      • SnazzyO

        Nice detail on the sniffology!

  • Angi Black

    Knowing the future I can only simply say – you missed the biggest foreshadow of all! Yes, Darla is crazy and always has been, but that was explained in this episode with perfect subtlety. I can’t wait tof the next few episodes. eeee!

    • We’ll be doing a lot of squeeing and back tracking I think. FUN TIMES.

  • darkalter2000

    Darla – “The Whirlwind, Angelus!”

    I find it kinda weird that I’m the first to mention this but their family of vampires was called The Whirlwind. I don’t know exactly when I learned this name, but I did know it was mentioned in this episode.

    I kinda love their name. I love it even more for the biblical connotation.

    They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. Hosea 8:7

    They are what they were sown.
    Liam was belittled by his father and “Lives down to his expectations”. He lived them down by becoming as evil as they come.
    William was consantly mocked by his peers for being overemotional and foolish. He raised it to an art form by adding in violence with little rationality to it as a goal in itself.
    Darla was regected by high society that she knew for a fact wasn’t what it pretended to be. She later pretends to be one of them while she is a demon in a mockery of what they are.
    And Drusilla was fearful of being seen as mad and evil because of her visions. She later revels in both her madness and her sight and people’s fear of her.

    • darkalter2000

      This post is a bit late, :/ hope it gets seen.

      • We see all things always in a totally not creepy way. Ahem.

    • SnazzyO

      Well I read it! And I had no idea they were called “The Whirlwind”. Cool. I love your analysis of them reaping what they were sown. Very spot on.

    • I heard her say “the whirlwind” but I didn’t know they had a gang name. I do like it, though. They seem to revel in the chaos. Everyone who talks about them seems to point out their path of destruction.

      It’s funny that you mention this because I was drafting up the next post last night and I linked to Dopplegangland. I went back and checked out that post and there was the little gif-set where Willow was saying that she things vamp!Willow is a little gay. Buffy says that vampires are nothing like the humans they were before and Angel starts to protest and then stops himself.

      The humans they were absolutely feeds into the vampires they become and you’ve spelled it out so well here. To put it simply and lamely, they were all to some extent the picked on kids who later overcompensate. But, you know with super strength and blood lust.

    • Just popped in to say that I have nothing to actually add to this comment, but I loved it. This was very well thought out 🙂

    • Disa

      That is extremely well said.

    • darkalter2000

      Thank you all for saying you liked it.

      I tend to think about characters in things I read/watch a great deal and try to pick apart their motives and motivations. With Buffyverse vampires it is even more interesting because you get to see deeper into their motivations. The darker ones anyway. You take who they were and remove their moral compass and thus you get to see aspects of the person you wouldn’t normally see because they were fundamentally good, or at least not bad.

      • Disa

        Yes. Yes. Yes. “What we once were informs all that we have become. The same love will infect our hearts, even if they no longer beat. Simple death won’t change that.”

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  • SonicRulez

    It’s always funny to see The Hurricane Walk and remember that it’s Angel in there and not Angelus. Crossover magic!

    If you’ll take a bit of fan wank, I think they used Darla in their mind screw plan instead of Buffy because they needed the physical body of the person invading Angel’s dreams. Otherwise they wouldn’t have needed to resurrect Darla to start the plan. Buffy would not have been as cooperative. Drusilla’s insistence on calling Darla grandmother is creepily amazing.