snark squad | where nostalgia comes to die

Buffy the Vampire Slayer S05 E07 – And Then She Died

and on July 1, 2013 · 98 comments in Buffy the Vampire Slayer,Season 5,TV

Previously: We met Tara’s family (including cousin Amy Adams) and they majorly sucked. Fortunately, the Scoobies are her family now.

Fool For Love

Sweeney: Today’s episode is called Fool For Love. You may have heard of it. I think it’s been mentioned a few times in the comments? Just a few. I want everyone to know that I really was just plopped into this spot in the rotation, because that’s what made sense. I didn’t choose my numbers, THEY CHOSE ME. Or, like, Lor chose them for me. I’M SORRY THE BUFFYVERSE RANDOM NUMBER GODS LOVE ME BEST. But not really.

Lor: I think the Number Gods mostly ignore me. I always get filler episodes.

K: I looked at who gets what in season 6 last week. The Buffyverse Random Number Gods really DO love you best. No fair. But mostly FOOL FOR LOVE OMFG AKWJFLAJAFKAJDFKAJDFDAFJALDHFKJSDHFKJSFH!!!!!!! Having ranked my favourite episodes while watching this, I can tell you that this ranks 4th out of Buffy’s 144 episodes for me. Episode 18 of season 4, on the other hand, ranks 144th… 

Sweeney: The episode’s previously is a short summary of what we know about Spike, with a bit at the end reminding us that Buffy wanted to spend S5 learning more about the Slayer mythology. We begin in the cemetery with Buffy fighting a vampire that looks like an extra in the Thriller music video. She puns as they fight. Thriller gets the upper hand, though, and manages to jam her own stake into her stomach. Roll credits.

Lor: I’m gonna go ahead and note that Thriller gets the upper hand because Buffy does a super unnecessary somersault flip over a grave stone.

Sweeney: An excellent observation. Get it together, B.

After the credits, she punches Thriller, removes the stake and tries to hobble off. Thriller stops her and she’s wounded and surprised. Just as Thriller goes in for the kill, Riley appears and tackles him. They fight and Riley goes for the taser, but fails. Thriller gets away as Riley goes to help Buffy.

K: As much as I love Buffy, I kind of love it when she’s not at full Slayer power. Like on her 18th birthday in Helpless, or when she’s got the flu in season 2, or IN THINGS STILL TO COME THAT MUST NOT BE DISCUSSED BECAUSE OF SPOILERS.

Sweeney: Cut to Riley patching Buffy up in her room, as they have the go-to-the-doctor chat in reverse, though Buffy’s resistance makes actual sense.  She then explains that it was just the one non-extra-special vampire and she has no idea how it beat her when she’s in the best physical shape of her slayer-powered life.

Dawn bursts in to warn them that Joyce is coming and Riley starts to discretely put away the various bandages and disinfectant. I’m actually impressed by how cool he played that. I’d have been all, “SHIT, SHOVE IT IN THE BAG HASTILY!” and been annoyingly obvious and faily. Just one of many reasons I’d have died a long time ago in the Buffyverse.

K: I’d have died a long time ago because I’m not so good with the running. I had to run for the train today, and it took me half of the 20 minute train trip to get my breath back. 

Sweeney: Joyce does spot the disinfectant and Dawn’s all, “Oh! Mine! Nail polish!” which a very tired Joyce accepts and leaves. Dawn’s proud of herself for covering something up, though she has no idea what. They have a cute sister moment and Buffy gives her tells her that she is “the  man” — “a very short, annoying man.” Poor Dawn. Dawn and Riley agree to pick up the slack for Buffy while the super Slayer healing does its thing.

That night, Riley is patrolling with the rest of the gang, per Buffy’s insistence (because duh, Riley, your drug-powered super strength is gone now) and this scene has some fun Scooby dialogue that I can’t properly appreciate because I’m so annoyed. Riley’s doing all the actual hunting while Willow, Xander, and Anya loudly eat potato chips and stand around uselessly. Willow and Xander spent an entire summer filling in for Buffy when she went MIA, and we’ve seen them serve as effective contributors to the patrolling dozens of other times, so this is just stupid.





K: While I agree that them eating chips is stupid, I don’t necessarily think it follows that they’re standing around uselessly. Their version of patrolling – much like Buffy’s – has always involved wandering around and having a chat, and if you happen to run into some unspeakable evil, then you kill it. Riley’s is more “Sneak around with lots of hand signals and voluntarily seek out the unspeakable evil because you have no purpose in life and need to take out your frustration by killing things.” Plus, I think they’re just kind of amused about Riley’s ridiculous hand signals, seeing as how the three of them have probably been responsible for killing more unspeakable evil than he has. You know?

Lor: I’m somewhere between you two in that this ventured from amusing to groan-worthy. It was a little ham-fisted considering their exposure to demons, the Initiative, and in Xander’s case, the military.

Sweeney: Magic Box. Buffy and Giles are going through accounts of previous slayers, looking for details of their deaths, so that Buffy could understand what made those various final battles special. Buffy doesn’t get why the accounts all seem to end with a detail free “and then she died.” (K: SHE SAID THE THING!) She assumes that the Watchers all found it unseemly – “too painful,” Giles corrects, and they have a heartbreaking little moment of silence about the high stakes and harsh reality of their relationship. You can all join us on the couch of feels now; I’ll make room.

K: For the purposes of this episode, the Team Heartless Cow ottoman has been dragged over to the Couch of Feels due to the need for additional space.

Sweeney: I’ll allow this. Just know that you’ll be returning to your Asshole Corner adjacent territory when this is all over.

Giles says something about how the final battles would be really helpful, but there’s nobody around to tell the tales. At that, Buffy gets IDEA face and we jump to her slamming Spike into a wall. She’s there to find out how he killed two slayers.

After a Not Commercial Break, they are at The Bronze and Buffy is reminding Spike of his two Slayer victims — China, during the Boxer Rebellion, and New York — holding up the money tree cash he’ll get in exchange for his information. They banter a bit and Spike insists that those deaths weren’t about the specific moves they made. He demands she order him a plate of spicy buffalo wings if she wants him to talk. Ew. Not ew to buffalo wings, which are tasty-bad-for-you-goodness, but ew to having to listen to someone tell you an involved story while eating buffalo wings.

K: Also, we’re right back to that whole “vampires eating stuff that’s not blood” debacle. DAMMIT, WHEDON. 

Lor: You are just baiting our readers to tell us more about how Angel doesn’t eat on account of being full on brood.

Sweeney: B asks if he’s always been this big a pain in the ass. “What can I say? I’ve always been bad.

With that, we segue magic to a pre-vamp Spike writing poetry that is only bad in the sense of being actually bad, rather than properly evil. (Though Ezrafitz poetry might be bad enough to be deemed evil.) (L: And it smells bad.)  He’s awkwardly doing this writing at a party and gets his inspiration when a woman he identifies as Cecily comes down the stairs. This actress plays someone we meet later in the Buffyverse and looking her up to confirm this led me to a Buffy wiki that now has me more stupid confused than I was before, because I don’t remember learning that these two are the same person. Psychic failure. I also know nothing, it seems.

K: Meanwhile, I’m cackling to myself about the future. Because I can.

Lor: I’m only now properly cackling about Spike’s bad wig in this Bad Wig Flashback. S’good.

Sweeney: Anyway, while I was having this psychic failure meltdown, poor pre-vamp William is having his bad poem publicly mocked. We learn that he actually earned the nickname “William the Bloody” for how shitty his poetry is. Cecily leaves and he follows her and she is trying to subtly convey her lack of interest, and poor William is not getting it and assuring her that he’s a good man. Unfortunately, Cecily’s modest, “Please, no!” quickly switches to pure bitch mode when she says, “Oh, but I do see you. That’s the problem. You’re nothing to me, William. You’re beneath me.” Poor William.

K: I has William feels. 

Sweeney: He runs off, having been thoroughly shamed and heartstomped. He’s interrupted by Drusilla (!!!) telling him that he just has all this vision that none of the people around him properly appreciate. William makes a very brief show of telling her to stay back, and mentioning that his mother will be expecting him, but quickly accepts the pretty girl coming on to him and Drusilla gets her bite on.

K: I love that where most vamp victims either scream or pass out, his reaction is “Ow. Ow. OW.” (L: +1)

Sweeney: In the cemetery, Riley is still leading and the other Scoobies have become slightly more competent. Riley finds a vampire party, of sorts, and decides that they’re better off returning in the morning when the vampires are asleep and they’re better armed.

Back at The Bronze, Spike is playing pool while Buffy is urging him to speed the story up a bit because she’s big on the “HOW’D YOU KILL THE SLAYERS?” and the audience is all, “STFU BUFFY, BACK STORY IS FUN!” And also: “WE SAW MORE FAMILIAR NAMES IN THE CREDITS.”

Speaking of, Spike said he had to get himself a gang so we resume the flashback: Angelus, sporting an atrocious wig of epic proportions (K: Truth), and the corresponding crap accent they thankfully didn’t make him do quite so strongly the last time he flashbacked on Angel; Darla, who seems to be loved best by the flashback wig team, as I think it’s how they show us that she was HBIC (and she gets a snazzy hat this time around); and Drusilla, whose just crazy-eyeing and eating up the tension as Angel and Darla discuss killing William, who demands to be called Spike now.

K: Speaking of, he’s sporting something that can only be termed “90s Leonardo di Caprio hair.”

Sweeney: Flashback hair is fun for all! Angelus and Spike start to bicker about the need to be less conspicuous and Darla giddies to Dru that their boys are about to fight. I nearly spit out my water laughing because Dru responds with her expected crazy and Darla’s, “WHO IS THIS BITCH?” face is the greatest thing ever.

Lor: AGREED. My Darla appreciation has certainly grown over on Angel, but this is just A+ in and of itself.

Sweeney: I had written a longer rambling bit about how watching Buffy gave me zero opinions/feelings on Darla, but in 6 episodes, I’ve already come to be a big fan on Angel. Scrapped to make room for Kirsti’s flail, but there’s the condensed version. Anyway, Spike and Angelus continue their bickering about the respective merits of mayhem vs. slow, calculated torture — you know typical vampire party banter — when Angelus says something about how an angry mob might teach Spike a lesson one day. “That, or a slayer,” he adds. Spike asks what that is, as we jump back to The Bronze where he tells Buffy that he became obsessed with them after that point.

Buffy again urges Spike to get to the play-by-play portion of the story. Spike quickly grabs hold of her, catching her off guard. He says her first lesson is to always reach for her weapon, because he already has his, and he vamps out.

aikobot:</p> <p>Buffy - 5x07 - “Fool for Love”<br /> Lesson the first: a Slayer must always reach for her weapon.<br />

Lor: Vampires can vamp out on command and vamping out makes them stronger (we learned on Angel). AND YET. Make-up and effects budget deem that they spend SO MUCH TIME fighting without their vampgrills. Ugh.

Sweeney: As much time as we spend harping on other things, strength/super-powered-ness is probably the greatest inconsistency in the Buffyverse. This is probably why we don’t talk about it as much: we would be discussing it every. single. post. and I just don’t care enough.

Spike adds that the only thing vampires have to fear is one girl, which is Buffy. “Back then, it was her.” This takes us back to China in 1900. Mayhem in the streets, because, you know, Boxer Rebellion, Spike and this slayer are fighting in what appears to be a temple. They fight and, as we already knew, Spike wins.

K: Okay, so I know I’m interjecting a LOT here today, but FOURTH FAVOURITE EPISODE, YO. So my favourite thing about this fight? That they basically provided backstory on how Spike got the scar through his eyebrow. First of all, I love that they played up James Marsters’ actual scar for the sake of the role, but providing backstory on it? GENIUS.

Lor: I did a happy squee when we saw the cut through his eyebrow, and then I started to think about vampire scarring logistics. That just don’t seem right. SHUTTING UP NOW AND ENJOYING NOW EVEN WHEN SENSE DOESN’T MAKE ANY.

Sweeney: After a Not Commercial Break, Drusilla enters to congratulate him on his accomplishment, suck slayer blood off his finger (K: Slayer blood – it’s finger lickin’ good), and then basically fuck over her dead body. (L: ‘Member when Darla and Angel made-out all over her?) (S: Vamps are fans of this sex-on-or-adjacent-to-the-victims business.) Out in the streets, they come across Angelus and Darla, though the dead slayer news mostly just has Angelus kind of broody. Then we get a dramatic shot of the gang walking through the streets, which is supposed to be all, “EPIC VILLAIN MOMENT!” but mostly just looks hilarious to me.

K: This episode makes me irrationally fan-girly, so I’m gonna go with DON’T YOU DARE, SWEENEY. BARREL JUMPING SPIKE IS RISING ABOVE THE REST OF THE GANG AND IT IS SYMBOLIC AND okay maybe a little bit silly but IT’S FABULOUS AND I LOVE IT.

Lor:

Sweeney: A+ Lor. (And nope, not even a little sorry. IT WAS FUNNY AND I LAUGHED.)

At The Bronze, Buffy is all gaggy about the idea of Spike getting off on the killing. Spike’s all, “VAMPIRE, YO!” I was about to say something about giving that a general +1 to that statement, but I think it speaks to the weird place Spike now has in the group. Point is, the idea of someone getting off on murder is gross, and Buffy banter doesn’t usually get deep enough for her to have had to think about this. Spike says that Buffy has started to think of herself as immortal and when she denies it, he pokes at her wound (giving himself a headache). Now that they’ve made a bit of a scene with their respective OMG PAIN reactions, they’re taking the lesson outside.

Meanwhile, Riley is returning to the crypt alone like a fucking idiot. He finds Thriller, who is bragging about Buffy’s stake. Riley quickly stakes Thriller and then drops a grenade before running off. Dude, that was someone’s excessively large family crypt! Rude.

Outside The Bronze, Spike still has the pool cue and he’s telling Buffy that she’s asking the wrong questions: “The question isn’t ‘How’d I win?’ The question is ‘Why’d they lose?’” They banter and fight — the fighting explained by the fact that Spike knows he won’t hit/hurt which keeps the chip from activating. This bit is just here because the pointless fighting is fun to watch.

Eventually, he takes us back to New York City in 1977. We round out today’s lesson in “slayers have been multiracial, but apparently Americans are EXTRA chosen” as a very Billy Idol Spike fights a girl with an afro and a sweet black leather jacket on a subway train. The Buffy/Spike fighting gets more of a purpose because this bit of storytelling involves a lot of jumping back and forth between the two fight scenes and it’s just really cool to watch. Subway Spike breaks off a poll and twirls it around and we jump to present!Spike twirling the pool cue.

A few gifs per episode | Buffy - 5x07 - “Fool for Love”

K: Okay, this scene is pure perfection for so many reasons. 1. NIKKI!!; 2. THE COAT; 3. Billy Idol!Spike; 4. Bicep appreciation; 5. He tells Buffy that “Death is your art.” It’s such a brilliant counterpoint to something that comes up later this season. In short: YES, GOOD, WANT.

Lor: But truly, those are some fantastic arms.

Sweeney: Indeed. The lip bit gifs seem to illicit the most Traumateer gifstaring, but this might be my favorite yet. Spike says he could have “danced” with that one all night, adding that dancing is all he and Buffy have ever done. (L: YEP. Hence all the times we’ve exclaimed, “WHY DIDN’T SHE KILL HIM?”) He tells Buffy that slayers are a bit in love with death and Buffy punches him back to the New York scene. I appreciate punching as a transition. subway!Spike gets the upper hand and kills the New York slayer. Slayers, he says, deal in death every day. It’s less about the punch she didn’t throw than the death wish that all slayers have. Buffy has lasted such a long time because she has things that tie her to the world — her mother, sister, and the Scoobies — but it’s only enough to delay the inevitable. Subway!Spike steals her leather jacket and gets up to tell Buffy that he’ll be waiting for her when that day comes.

More banter and Spike urges Buffy to just take a swing. She doesn’t, so he leans in for a kiss that he doesn’t get. Buffy’s all, “UH. NO.” She pushes him down and says that even if she did want to dance, it wouldn’t be with him because he’s beneath her. Burn. She throws the money at him and walks off, leaving him to scramble for it, teary-eyed.

K: Again, a brilliant scene. No matter how far Spike may have come in the world, he’s still the same guy he was when he was human – brought to tears by a woman he loves who thinks he’s beneath her. 

Sweeney: Back at his TARDIS Crypt, he rummages through his chest for a gun. Harmony tries to talk him out of it, reminding him of the chip and his pre-chip failed attempts, but he’s not having it. After he storms out we cut to him fighting with Drusilla about Buffy in South America in 1998. Drusilla’s still pretty pissed about the events of the S2 finale, and adds that Spike is all covered with the slayer. This scene has the amusing backdrop of an awkward demon with slime-covered reindeer antlers who was Dru’s side piece.

K: It’s also a nice reminder that while Dru is 90% buckets of crazy, she’s also 10% accurate predictions of the future. She knew way back in 1998 that Spike was going to fall for Buffy, no matter what.

Lor: I loved the Chaos Demon because it’s a call back to Lover’s Walk, which was an awesome episode that I got to cover. Thanks Number Gods for Willow/Spike, tongue porn, Pez dispensers and the birth of 1430.

Sweeney: We jump back to the Summers home, where Buffy is talking to Joyce in her room. Joyce is packing and has waited until this moment to tell Buffy that she’ll be staying at the hospital overnight for observation. Not that this would ever be easy news to hear, but recent events obviously add to that struggle. Buffy sits on her back porch and cries.

We see Spike walk through the shadows with his gun. He’s got murder face on until Buffy looks up at him, tears on her face, and asks what he wants now. Spike asks if there’s anything he can do and then sits down next to her and pats her shoulder. Buffy is making, “WUT IS HAPPENING?” eyes. Spike mostly just sits there and watches her for a bit, until they both silently stare off into the bushes around the Summers home. Roll credits.

A few gifs per episode | Buffy - 5x07 - “Fool for Love”

K: This final scene, for me (the epic FFL fangirl), is so telling of Spike’s role into the future – into BUFFY’S future. When she’s unable to talk to her friends, when it’s too hard for her to put into words the things that are happening in her life, Spike’s there. She doesn’t need to say anything if she doesn’t want to. His presence is enough to show her that she’s not alone. That someone cares, no matter what anyone else thinks, and no matter what SHE thinks. Reading too much into things? Probably. Do I care? NOT EVEN.

 Lor: I’d probably get yelled at if I didn’t spell out that YES. I DID ENJOY THIS EPISODE. However, this is probably more appreciated once you know the future. Even without that, I enjoyed it for back story, CROSS OVER MAGIC! and lots of visual and fight things that were fun to watch. I loved all the callbacks and I loved the progressions of things. 

Sweeney: I’m not really with Kirsti on the Spuffy fangirl train (because of reasons that we haven’t gotten to yet) but I love this episode for all of the reasons Lor just said – crossover magic and back stories are both easy ways to win my heart. The whole thing was just well constructed and while picking apart continuity failures is a big part of our shtick, I appreciated all the overarching continuity that did happen here. Good stuff all around.

Next time on Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Shit gets serious when Joyce goes to the hospital, Riley becomes even less of a priority for Buffy, and Glory continues to prove that she’s Voldemort reborn. Find out all the details in S05 E08 – Shadows.

 

Sweeney (all posts)

I collect elaborate false eyelashes, panda gifs, and passport stamps. I earned my MA in Global Communications and watching too many YouTube videos. Reconciling my aversion to leaving the house/wearing pants with my deep desire to explore everything is my life's great struggle.





Kirsti (all posts)

I'm a 30-something under-employed librarian and I still live with my parents because I'm super broke. Leader of Team Heartless Cow. I have an inexplicable love for 90s television, eat too much chocolate, and tweet about the random crap that happens to me on public transport more than I should.





Lorraine (all posts)

I'm a 20-something south Floridan who loves the beach but cannot swim. Such is my life, full of small contradictions and little trivialities. My main life goals are never to take life too seriously, but to do everything I attempt seriously well. After that, my life goals devolve into things like not wearing pants and eating all of the Zebra Cakes in the world. THE WORLD.





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  • SnazzyO

    So I love the EPIC Walk of Badass thru the Boxer Rebellion in slow mo because:
    1) They’re vampires, they STRUT through chaos
    2) Spike hops up like a little kid full of joy and Slayer buzz
    3) Dru is all proud of her man
    4) And Angel & Darla’s reactions works well – TWICE

    It took this 83rd time of watching to notice the scar backstory creation although I want credit for discovering that before I read it in the room (thus you harshed my squee because I thought I was finding something new and you got it right away…*sigh*)

    Kirsti, you missed #6 for the subway scene: 6. The “Shaft” music score. Come on, that really sets the scene!

    I also find that this is the “everyone-must-love-Spike!” episode because he’s so sympathetic. Now I can’t argue with this — I do love Spike. And I don’t think they overplayed it. But I will confess to some jealousy that his backstory is ONE episode is so RICH compared to others. Still, Spike FTW in this ep.

    Finally, on “incompetent Scoobies”, I’m with the “patrolling which chatting is par” crowd so I didn’t mind it that much.

    • Danna

      Your description of “The Walk” is absolutely perfect! That scene speaks volumes about each of the four characters.

      • Jojo

        Was it trope back then? See Buffy has a sort of Princess Bride vibe, so I even love trope because they are deadly serious in a not so deadly serious way (see William getting sired).

        And I thought incompetent scoobs were subtly making fun of Riley because really, who has killed more vamps and patrolled more? And Riley with his choo-choo gesture is really kinda lame in a funny way.

        • Danna

          “Was it trope?” Me not understand, Jojo. To be honest, I never really even used the word trope until Mark. And now I hear everyone saying it. But what exactly does it mean? Is it an insult? There is a certain amount of campiness. A lot of contrivance. Terrible special effects. And yes, there are themes that are universal in many stories – If that’s what trope means. To me, this is all part of the brilliance of the show. That it can be so overplayed and obvious and at the same time have so much subtlety. That it can be so comic book like and so deeply emotional. That what I LOVE!

          I completely and wholeheartedly like and accept your explanation of why the scoobies were eating chips!

          • Clément Polge

            From what I understand, a trope is basically something classic, that we often see, but it’s not a pejorative as “cliché”.

            There’s a website called tvtropes.org listing a lot (and I mean, a LOT) of tropes, with multiple exemples of use. Unlike what the name suggest, this website doesn’t only deal in tv tropes though, but also comic, movies, books, video games, …

          • Jojo

            Oh, good thing! Not cliche but classic. I feel soothed!

          • Clément Polge

            Also I just realised that tvtropes actually has a page for Buffy, where you can see al the tropes of the show ! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer?from=Main.BuffyTheVampireSlayer

            Obviously, there is a HUGE lot. And a fair bit of spoilers as well, even in the “trope by season” thing.

          • Jojo

            ***This series has become one of the most Trope Overdosed and Lampshaded shows in existence — thousands of references to Buffy exist across this entire wiki — partially because TV Tropes began with a specific focus on Buffy (based on a 2004 thread on the fan site Buffistas.org) before branching out to all of TV and eventually all of everything.

            We no longer consider this show as Trope Overdosed — we now officially classify it as kiloWick.
            In fact, it sits over 4000 marks higher than the minimum for kiloWick.
            The show’s entire run lasts 6,056 minutes (144 episodes with a runtime
            of 42 minutes apiece, though the musical was extended to 50), making
            this a literal case of (roughly) one trope per minute.***

            Hey – Buffy created Tropes!

          • SnazzyO

            “Hey – Buffy created Tropes!”

            Indeed it did. Further many of the trope names (Including the trope called “Fool for Love”) come directly from the show.

          • Jojo

            I feel an utterly nonsensical and completely unreasonable sense of pride. It is….odd but very validating from some reason.

            Now I am off to read tropes until the Darla review is posted.

          • SnazzyO

            Thanks for providing the link. I’ve been there many time.

            But in addition to the SPOILER WARNINGS I must also add “BLACKHOLE VORTEX FOR ULTIMATE TIMEWASTING” warning. Because really, you get sucked into that wiki and you may never come out. 30 min minimum for newbies. I’ve found myself lost for two hours before.

            Enter at your own risk/enjoyment…..

          • Jojo

            I kinda think trope is a frequently used…even cliche…less theme and more an action, moment, scene, etc. But I think we both need an official explanation.

    • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

      Sorry, but I tend to side with Sweeney’s LOL reaction, not because this wasn’t nicely thought out or blocked out, but because the strutting away from an explosion thing is a trope and seeing it used will never not be funny for me. I mean, we got all of those reactions (your 1-4) from everything in that scene leading up to the EPIC WALK. This seemed more like a, “SEE? SEE US WALKING AWAY? YEAH.”

      I mean, it was enjoyable, but I laughed at it.

      The music in the subway was indeed inspired, and another moment of humor inserted into an otherwise pretty thematically heavy episode. I loved it.

    • Melbourne on my Mind

      That is an A+ description of the walk.

  • Anagnorisis

    This episode ranks 4th out of 144 Buffy episodes in my list too!! Hush is number 3 and two episodes we haven’t seen yet are 1 and 2.
    The original title of this episode was going to be ‘Love’s Bitch’, which would have been more than amazing. But of course, censors or something had to ruin it :(
    Lol, William Pratt is so pathetic, this is perfect.
    And yes! I do love that they made this two characters played by the same actress actually the same character, it’s great!
    William/Effulgent OTP
    Of course his mother will be expecting him, OF COURSE.
    Darla and Drusilla ship Spangel(us) as much as we do.
    The scar thing it’s explained because that slayer weapon is magical, so that scar won’t heal like other normal vampires’ scars. So answer: MAGIC!
    The Whirlwind Power Walk (as in the trope, not the exercise) is amazing and it will always be.
    ‘You are beneath me’ god I love this episode
    However, while I get the call back about the Chaos Demon, I hate that he is there and looks like that. IDK, feels out of place.
    Oh, the ending is just so perfect.
    And the crossover magic is not over yet! Can’t wait for Darla! Squeeeeeeeeeeee

    • SnazzyO

      Team Spangel FTW

      • Jojo

        TEAM SPANGEL AND TEAM SPANGEL AGAIN AND I AM PRIVATELY DOING THE TEAM SPANGEL CHEERLEAD WITH BLOOD RED POMPOMS OF SPANGEL LUST!
        oh, and I like Spangel too….not much adrenalin here….no…..(SPANGEL)

        • Jojo

          Oh, and for those who don’t get the Spangel reference – it’s about Angel throwing Spike on his back on a flat surface, coming up close between his legs and then threatening to penetrate him with a hard object…..which we all believe happened later that day at least. And before then…and after….and many other times…but not that same hard object (WINK-WINK-NUDGE-NUDGE – get your Freud on!)

          • Clément Polge

            Angel is Spike’s grand-pa, so that’s some serious Freud going on there.

          • Jojo

            Yeah, but it isn’t a biological relationship – and evil demons even if it were one – and how else do you release all that excess energy Spike has – and dominate him at the same time…..gah!

          • SnazzyO

            Exactly. Plus they sort of sleep with their makers (Darla/Angel and Dru/Spike) so I think in the Whedonverse it’s just all sort of intense.

            In fact, although I completely acknowledge that they play the hoyay big time with Spangel, I really like the depth and complexity of backstory between the two.

          • Jojo

            Whedon was asked about Spangel and said that ‘hell yeah vamp Angel and Spike slept together – lot’s of times’; So that is canon. All family members had sex in various combinations – lot of daylight to waste. This is where it becomes seen how the Spike/Angel canon evolved and why, just as it is for Spike/Dru, and Angel/Darla.

            I think people tend to forget that the Spike/Angel relationship is also canon even if network standards didn’t allow it to be explored….so I remind them….often….

          • Anagnorisis

            uff, you had to put it in those words? I need a cold shower now XD

          • Jojo

            Oh, so do I…..maybe a tub full of ice. (I can just picture the steam rising out of it!)

    • Danna

      “Love’s Bitch” would have been more than amazing!

    • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

      It’s amazing to me that we’re so far into this but so much good is yet to come! Can’t wait until we get to your numbers 1 and 2.

      “Darla and Drusilla ship Spangel(us) as much as we do.” Even in terrible wigs! That’s some powerful ship right there.

      MAGIC WEAPON scars. Okay. I will buy that but mostly because I kind of want to lick that scar. WHOOPS. I TYPED THAT OUT LOUD.

      I wrote my thoughts on the trope. Yes it is fantastic but YES, it will mostly always make me laugh.

      B’s delivery of that line and the money through and the little whimpering Spike sobs? Fantastic and I loved it.

      I LOVED the Chaos Demon! I think this episode injected a few moments of levity and this one worked for me much more than any of Riley’s snoozey sub-plot did. I mostly loved it because of how sobby Spike was when he was telling the story of the Chaos Demon.

      • Melbourne on my Mind

        I’ve honestly never noticed the explosion in the background (probably because I’m too busy going “SPIKE’S GOING TO DO THE BARREL JUMP YAAAAAY”), so it’s never really felt cheesy to me. Plus, I generally don’t really give a fuck about tropes. TROPE AWAY, SHOW RUNNERS!! (Except Moffat)

        • Danna

          If I saw this scene in real life, I would first marvel at Spike and then I would run and hide. The word trope would never cross my mind.

        • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

          I freakin’ LOVE tropes. I mean, I love spotting them and talking about them. ALL I’M SAYING IS THAT THIS ONE MAKES ME LAUGH NO MATTER HOW BADASS YOU THINK SPIKE JUMPING OFF A LITTLE, ANKLE HIGH BARREL IS, OKAY.

          I love you.

          • Jojo

            Knee high….just saying. And he gets serious lift and foreshadowy coat breeze of gale proportions. And his hair gets lift but it doesn’t look silly like Angel’s. And did I mention serious I am alpha dog (OMG – typed alpo there!) so suck it mopey Angel lift. Yeah – HUGE TROPE – but with LAMPSHADE! I find myself laughing with them and not at them because nothing exceeds like excess!

    • Melbourne on my Mind

      Hush is 5th for me. Doppelgangland is #1, Tabula Rasa is #2 and Once More With Feeling is #3.

      • Raluca

        I have to declare a tie for first place between Fool for Love and Once More With Feeling, Seeing Red is second place, although it’s really hard to watch because of reasons and Tabula Rasa is actually third.

  • JEL

    I’m with Lor in that I think this is a very good episode but I don’t get as excited about it as some.

    One thing this episode brings up is the “unreliable witness” in Buffy & fiction. A lot of people get upset when a character says something that the person watching/reading thinks violates some aspect of the fictional universe. They seem to forget that just because a character says something doesn’t make it “true”. The character may be out & out lying, exaggerating or telling only part of the truth to make a point, or may even say something that the character believes is true and is simply mistaken.

    Here Spike for a large part of the episode is definitely an unreliable witness. The first couple things he says are immediately contradicted by the flashbacks. (He wasn’t bad. He didn’t get a gang together.) So then, is he right that all slayers eventually develop a death wish? I believe he believes it when he says it, but I think whether he is right can be (and is) debatable.

    Nyfb Fcvxr vf jebat gung Avxxv qbrfa’g unir nalguvat gb gvr ure gb gur jbeyq. Fur unf ure fba, juvpu vf n irel cbjreshy gvr. Ohg V qba’g guvax Fcvxr xarj gung Ebova rkvfgrq ng guvf cbvag. (Cebonoyl gur jevgref qvqa’g rvgure!)

    One other minor point: I don’t think Spike is saying that a slayer should reach for her weapon, he is saying a slayer is vulnerable because she has to reach for a weapon. (Or when she reaches for a weapon.) If I remember the fight scene in China correctly, he manages to kill the slayer in part because she takes her attention off Spike for just a second to go get her weapon.

    • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

      I love, love that you point out the unreliable witness! In fact, I think it makes me like the episode just a bit more when I see it from this Spike’s unreliable telling of events rather than hard and fast fact. He’s coloring his own tale with story telling and some of that tried and true William emotion.

      That whole “Slayer has a death wish” thing was a bit hollow for me on the whole, but it’s weird for me to comment on account of not having the whole story yet. Mostly, I was waiting for her to say something like, “I’ve already died, bitch. I know what it’s like.” and kick him in the balls.

      I agree with your interpretation of things. It’s interesting, because Slayers have their powers always with them, but they can’t kill vampires without going for something (stake, fire, axe, something) while vampires do a little head shake and FANGS. They are at a disadvantage and I think that ties in with what Spike was saying. All he needs is a good day. A dropped stake, a distracting explosion, the lights on the subway go out, etc. That’s scarier than anything else for B, that something beyond her control could eventually be what does her in.

      • Jojo

        I don’t think Buffy consciously wants to die – or any of them do. I think, once again, this is poetic archetype and insight into thoughts and feelings that others hide from themselves (like Spike used so effectively in Yoko). Reality is his weapon now – and he can use it as a needle or a bombshell.

        • Clément Polge

          This is what Spike says, “every slayer has a death wish”, not because any of them WANTS to die, but because the endless fight is just psychologically exhausting.

          But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, this is only the 7th episode, and we’re only at season 5, so we’ll have time to talk about this :)

    • Jojo

      Lrnu – fur qvq unir ure fba ohg fur xarj ure jngpure jbhyq jngpu uvz. Onpx gura fur jbhyq unir orra zneevrq, fb unf ure uhfonaq qvrq orpnhfr ab bar vf jngpuvat gur xvq va gur yngre rcvfbqr. Naq V guvax fur xabjf fur jvyy qvr orpnhfr fur jnagf gb trg Ebova njnl sebz ure. Pna lbh vzntvar gur fgerff bs orvat n fvatyr cnerag naq n fynlre? V qba’g guvax fur pbafpvbhfyl jnagf gb qvr – be nal bs gurz qb. V guvax, bapr ntnva, guvf vf cbrgvp nepurglcr naq vafvtug vagb gubhtugf naq srryvatf gung bguref uvqr sebz gurzfryirf (yvxr ur hfrq fb rssrpgviryl va Lbxb).

      • JEL

        Va gur pbzvpf (gur pnabavpny barf oyrffrq ol Wbfu) vg vf fnvq Avxxv jnf na hajrq zbgure naq qvqa’g xabj jub gur sngure jnf. Vg vf vzcyvrq (vs V erzrzore pbeerpgyl) gung fur jnf n ovg yvxr Snvgu va ure hfr bs zra gb oybj bss fgrnz nsgre fynlvat naq abg univat nal creznarag nggnpuzragf.

  • DevyMama

    This could have been the worst episode of the series and I’d still continue to watch it over and over because of Billy Idol Spike. The hair! The eyeliner! The biceps! *swoon* *drool*

    • Anagnorisis

      Don’t forget that it was Billy Idol who stole that look from Spike ;)

    • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

      Fair. I guess thank God it wasn’t the word because imagine if the stick twirling happened smack dab in the middle of Beer Bad or something.

      ::shudder::

  • Democracy Diva

    This episode is phenomenal, especially if you love Spike as much as I do. All of his back story is great, late 70s NYC subway Spike is INCREDIBLE, as is the ’70s Slayer (FABULOUS), and the pool cue/pole twirling flash-back was just impeccable. Also, Spike arms. I die. That’s all. And the final scene breaks my damn heart.

    • lev36

      That final scene is so amazing, and for me shows why Spike’s love is truer than Angel’s. He comes storming over, full of fury, but one sight of Buffy in distress and he completely forgets himself – something I think Angel isn’t capable of – and his only thought is helping her.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Angel hasn’t placed thoughts of Buffy above thoughts of himself, but Spike at that moment doesn’t even have any of the latter. Angel has brooded over himself far too long to actually ever forget himself like that, IMO.

      Anyway, I can’t watch this scene without crying myself.

      • Jojo

        Not to mention that unsouled Angel wants Buffy broken and terrified and screaming for death with all her friends laying about all bloodied…while Spike wants to…..comfort her and make her fall in love with him and her tears make him remember what humans do.

        • Melbourne on my Mind

          I think that’s part of why I love Spike’s character so much. Yes, he’s effectively harmless due to the chip. But he’s still a soulless vampire, and yet he loves her more than anything.

          • Melodie Hatley

            He loves her, but not more than “anything”. He doesn’t love her more than himself. I think Whedon did say (or maybe Marsters in an interview? I don’t remember. Someone said this) that Spike was unique in the vampire world because he COULD love. However, in the end, it’s still a selfish love.

  • Danna

    So many great moments in this episode! But since this is about Snark, I must agree, I found the scene with the scoobies eating chips on patrol a little overplayed. I also found it extremely odd that Joyce seemed to tell Buffy about spending the night at the hospital as an aside while she was packing. Like if Buffy had not happened to be sitting in her bedroom while she was looking for the cream rinse, maybe she would have waited until she was on her way out the door? And yes, I totally agree: Vampire strength and abilities = the biggest inconsistency in this show! It even makes me love the show more. I happily accept all that does not make sense!

    Spike’s look in the mine shaft and during the Boxer Rebellion days is the best. I love the way all of them look there, andI love the interaction between Spike and Angel. Be still my Spangel heart! (Sweeney the power walk must not be ridiculed!) I do find it interesting that by this point, Spike has changed from a London gentleman to a street thug, while Angel seems to have gone all gentrified. Hmmmm

    One of Spike’s most memorable “head tilts” is when he realizes Buffy is crying and he asks if there is something he can do. He is hopelessly conflicted about Buffy and this plays out again and again as does the theme that they are inexplicably drawn to gather at critical moments.

    • Melbourne on my Mind

      I always saw the Joyce packing thing as “I’m getting the packing out of the way, so the girls don’t have to see me do it, and then I’ll tell them about it.”. That it’s her way of procrastinating about telling her daughters something really difficult and upsetting. You know? I never got the feeling that she was packing and then immediately going to leave.

      • Jojo

        I agree – it’s a mother thing. Besides, while you pack you practice your speech to keep them calm and not scare them. Being a mother with much hospital experience I approve and agree!

  • behind blueiz

    One of my fav episodes. I love how this episode takes you through William/Spike’s transformation–from the accent, name, dress, behavior, to the bleached hair and signature coat– yet in the end no matter how much he changed, he still remained the same.

    William was a kind man that wore his heart on his sleeve. Spike is no different. The lengths he went for Drusilla and eventually “others” (nope, I will not spoil) showed no bounds. He is loyal and devoted, almost to a fault, and this is why (I believe) everyone loves this character. No matter right or wrong, he always followed his heart. (His hotness is just an extra yummy bonus!)

    This is why I feel Spike is an anomaly in the vampire world–from his love, devotion, and love of human food differences to name a few.

    • Shea Foley

      ^^^ I approve this message. Well said.

      • behind blueiz

        Thanks! :)

      • Jojo

        +1 and my name is LEGION! (I know I should apologize for serious CAPS abuse with a side order of exclamation abuse!!!!!!!!! But no.)

    • Melbourne on my Mind

      A+ and 1430 for you.

  • Shea Foley

    Obviously my love for this episode is tied to my overall love for Spike, but beyond that I just thought his explanations for why Slayers die was spot on. It has to be hard for a Slayer to be around death so much and not become curious what will happen when their time is up. We’ve seen this with Buffy already, and though she fights against the idea, it’s a constant in her life and denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. This is really where she starts to get the picture, and like someone said, Spike really is the only one who understands her. Even the Watchers can’t deal with the death of their Slayers because they’re invested yet separate. This episode just goes to highlight the liminality of both Buffy and Spike.

    Fangirl reasons to love this episode abound. The arms. The underlying romantic nature of Spike that make him the ultimate, swoon-worthy bad boy (in a way that Angel can’t even hope to achieve). And, while I now, as an adult woman, have a lot of issues of where this character goes from here in relation with Buffy, I just remember watching this episode as a Junior in high school and thinking it was utterly romantic on so many levels.

    And now I can stop squeeing about this episode. The next one I’ll squee for is season six episode seven.

    • lev36

      There shall be a great squeeing heard throughout the land when we reach S06 E07.

    • Jojo

      Liminality – fantastic new word. And every word you said should be set in gold. I do believe slayers have to get exhausted (as we know Buffy is to some degree) and begin to wonder what is on the other side. How many years can you do this job…and usually alone?

    • Raluca

      Season 6, episode 7 is the best! I know I said I liked FFL most of all, but I think it’s actually a tie, with OMWF. And I think I’ve watched OMWF more times than I watched FFL, come to think of it. And now I wanna re-watch it!

  • darkalter2000

    I love how bad Spike wasn’t back when he was human. He wrote bad poetry and had the nickname ‘William the Bloody’ because of how bad it was, in a very highschool-esque way. William hears the insult a guy made about how he would rather have a railroad spike driven through his head than listen to any of his poetry. Later he tortures people with railroad spikes then takes Spike as his name. I also love how he doesn’t seem convinced by Drusilla’s spiel until she uses the word ‘effulgent’. He also whined like a bitch while being turned. He is such a product of his trauma.

    Spike taught Angelus how to be spontaneous. Angelus taught Spike how to be dangerous. They had a synergy back then, Spike pushed Angelus to new heights and then Angelus pushed Spike to match him. Angelus and Spike probably wouldn’t be half the vampires they were if not for that initial sireing.

    By treating Spike like a whore Buffy hit him right where he hurts. Where he just told her that he hurt. She has a bit of vicious streak does our Buffy.

    Minor Points and Quotes

    Protip, Xin Rong, the Slayer of the Boxer Rebellion, used a magic sword. That is why Spike has a scar on his eyebrow. Also James Marsters got mugged in New York and the show had to explain the scar on a vampire eventually.

    That demon Drew cheated on Spike with, is the chaos demon he tortured Drew over to win her back in season 3. “Have you ever seen a Chaos Demon? All slime and antlers, they’re disgusting!”

    “Look, I realize that every Slayer comes with an expiration mark on the package. But I want mine to be a long time from now. Like a Cheeto.” This line! Laughing my ass off!

    • Danna

      Hee! I’ve never heard anyone react quite like William to being bitten.

      To be fair… Did he tell Buffy about the conversation with Cecily? I know we saw the scene, but I am assuming Spike didn’t talk about that with Buffy. I always thought when she said he was beneath her, it was a very unfortunate coincidence. But I do agree with you, Buffy has a mean streak.

      • Melbourne on my Mind

        Agreed – we saw the scene, but my head canon says that what he tells Buffy is basically “So in 1880, I was walking down the street one night and met Dru. She sired me. The end.” So Buffy saying he was beneath her was an unfortunate coincidence that only Spike and the audience would understand.

        • SnazzyO

          IA, no way does Spike tell her the gory details of Cecily.

          • Jojo

            And is this what really happened or 100 years of living with a crazy lover who has definite ideas of what happened? How reliable is Spike’s own memory?

          • darkalter2000

            Spike has a damn near perfect memory when something very emotional is happening to him. But of course, like all memories, they are coloured by his veiwpoint.
            For example, Spike didn’t know that Angel had been resouled so he didn’t know his congradulations weren’t honest and he was flying high on Slayer blood and sex so he wasn’t in a very perceptive frame of mind.

        • darkalter2000

          I think that he gave her at least some detail, otherwise the flashback and then the scene with her asking what this has to do with anything doesn’t really make sense. But you may be correct in saying he just said he was rejected and didn’t give exact wordings.

  • geff

    This is the episode that finally made me really interested in Spike’s character. Nothing beats the first time I saw it, though, I was basically holding my breath during Spike’s “death is your art” speech – it’s so well edited and put together. And it fits perfectly with what Kristi mentioned comes up later. That image of Buffy shoving him to the ground and throwing the money at him got to me as well. I also love that you don’t know exactly what Spike said to Buffy. He obviously lied about everything, and I definitely don’t think he told her about Cecily. I don’t even completely agree with what he says about Slayers having a death wish but I do think that’s something Buffy battles with these next few seasons.

  • Clément Polge

    My favourite transition of the episode is still after the tale of the second slayer killing, when Spike claps his hand saying that “the SECOND she’ll want death, i’ll be here”. That’s really awesome.

    And yes, this episode hyper might have been a tad overbuilt, but there’s so much backstory, so much amazing Spike, and, when you know the future, so many things are being started here.

    And I’m with Kirsti with the bad-guy-slow-walk, maybe it’s a tiny tiny bit laughable, but to me the fact that Spike doesn’ just bad-guy-walk, but goes on a thingy and make a mini-jump thingy makes it just awesome enough for me to excuse to ridicule of the scene.

    • Clément Polge

      Also, I just went on wikipedia to see what was the next episode, and this happens in the synopsis: “In addition, Buffy must keep her sister safe from Glory and her magic snake. ”

      It’s not just me, right ? It does sound like porn ?

      • SnazzyO

        Whedon loves his double entendre.

        • Jojo

          Whedon also loves his penis. In the episodes…all the penis imagery…and substitutes…and probably his own but I wouldn’t know about that – just speculation.

      • Melbourne on my Mind

        Sometimes I really wonder about the people who write synopses. Because half the time, they’re just wrong and the other half they’re hilarious, like this one.

  • Jojo

    Yes, this is THE EPISODE because we finally learn why Spike is such an odd vampire – like definitely evil but also like hot cocoa and Harmony is actually right when she says he is so sensitive. Because – supremely bad poet still sees in archetypes and poetry, and beneath the surface of what people are hiding.

    It is also – in fandom – the unreliable narrator episode because….did Spike really tell Buffy the entire Cecily story? Or are we seeing his memories while he tells her something else? Something shorter? And as for the siring issue – “You were my sire….nah, let’s make it Dru were my sire” there are those who speculate that Dru drained him but lost her focus and Angel refilled him. I can live with that. And there are some who say the burning baby fish around his head is the chip.

    The turning scene itself is great because when Angel was tuned he was all manly and strong and quiet while Spike is “Owie. This is so ouch! Wait, getting turned on – this feels so….ooops, dead.” And…effulgent….love the way Dru grabs the word. And Spike’s befuddled and mildly curious reaction to the vamp grill. And can I say – SPIKE’S MOTHER LIVED WITH SPIKE AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!! Because back in Victorian England women could not inherit property. William inherited house but let mom live with him. Sorry – pet peeve. Back to flail.

    So Angel who always wanted to move up in class meets Spike who becomes a champion of the people and hate the frilly cuffs and collar crowd – though he will hunt and eat either so champion may not be taken as we normally take but more like champion of the Angus burger, with or without extra bacon, mushrooms and avocado. I love the Chinese slayer because Spike just looks so damn ugly – no attempt to make him seductive – nah, he looks like Cletus the lacking in personal hygiene slayer of slayer. And the Buddhist temple…..wow – how overdone can a set be? Perfect. And the weapon is believed to have been dipped in holy water, which is why the scar and then the let’s fuck in a burning building because we is vamp and we can get really, really hot – and Spike ain’t scared of nothing, and horny sex against a pillar drenched in blood – yeah, Spike is growing up big time.Pun unintended but thoroughly meant.

    Billy Idol fight is one of my favorite scenes because Spike is just so perfect with white hair and safety pins, and then there’s the cutting between scenes and a really wise and perceptive monologue and that is perfection, and Spike is really sharing the truth as he sees it and in some way trying to save Buffy and then…..he swoops in for a kiss because we all know that fighting, fucking and feeding are all the same to vamps…and Buffy even admits she is horny…and then she pushes him to the ground and throws money at him like he is some sort of whore. And he is in PAIN!

    But he is one weird vampire – he is Love’s Bitch just as he was as a human. And he hates the Angelus torture and kill and make sure the victim is a sad hunk of terror and pain – he is adrenalin junkie who needs the fight. And Buffy is tearing up, and he just can’t pull the trigger. Love’s Bitch Beats Big Bad – and he struggles to remember how to comfort the food….the slayer….Buffy.

    Yes, you just snarked the damn episode but I need to recap because of reasons. And your snark was wonderful – but I love the power walk because I really believe that is what Spike felt – he felt power walk jump in the air Angel is a wuss and I killed a slayer and Dru is so hot and Nyah, nyah Darla and like flying. FLYING! TRIUMPH!

    • Clément Polge

      I love your comment, but I have to ask, are you high ?

      • Jojo

        I am high on Spike. No seriously, I watched the episode lat night…okay and I was high then …so this may have some reflected highness. I just get very can’t pause sometimes. I love that you love my comment. Still bouncing off wall!

    • Anagnorisis

      ‘…because we all know that fighting, fucking and feeding are all the same to vamps…’
      Thank you for that line. I think there’s no better way to say it.

      • Jojo

        Wish it was mine but I just repeat – I love it too. Now Spike can no longer fight and feed from Slayer…..

  • Anagnorisis

    Also, I think that even the people that don’t watch Angel should watch the episode ‘Darla’ because, even if it’s not as good as this, they both work together perfectly.

    • SnazzyO

      I’d almost call it “required” although it’s fair to say it’s more about a different POV.

      • Jojo

        It makes me love Darla – high class bitch extraordinaire!

    • http://www.sweeneysays.com Sweeney

      YES. We’re finishing up that recap now, and I’ll get to all these comments another time, but I saw this email and laughed because I seriously had to check myself for the number of times I said it (or started to say it) in the draft for the ‘Darla’ recap. I even emailed this comment to the other girls earlier today. Basically: I have said/thought this at least a dozen times today and so your comment made me giggle.

  • http://natashanleigh.com/ Natasha Leigh

    This was one of my favorite episodes, especially during the scene in which it switches from Spike in New York and Spike in Sunnydale. There were two things I don’t know if anyone noticed, but Nikki (NY Slayer) has some awesome pants, and Spike said something to Buffy that she will later repeat in Season (redacted). Also, did anyone notice that Buffy’s lip started quivering when Spike told her that Slayers were in love with death? I think that really comes back later in the season. In conclusion, the poem (redacted).

    • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

      She DID have awesome pants. They had the lacing up the side, yeah? Super foxy.

      Be sure and point it out later in the season, in case we don’t catch it. I feel like I’ll be super aware now.

      Sigh. Spoilers make things no fun.

      • http://natashanleigh.com/ Natasha Leigh

        Sorry about the spoilers. I really tried not to do them, but it’s really hard. Sigh. What Buffy repeats is in a later season, so I’ll probably point it out then. Spike’s poem appear in a different show, so I hope that wasn’t bad and the lip quiver pretty much alluded to Buffy knowing that Spike was right about slayers having a death wish. I hope that wasn’t really really bad. Also, I really really loved those pants.

  • Lindsey

    “This final scene, for me (the epic FFL fangirl), is so telling of Spike’s role into the future – into BUFFY’S future. When she’s unable to talk to her friends, when it’s too hard for her to put into words the things that are happening in her life, Spike’s there. She doesn’t need to say anything if she doesn’t want to. His presence is enough to show her that she’s not alone. That someone cares, no matter what anyone else thinks, and no matter what SHE thinks. Reading too much into things? Probably. Do I care? NOT EVEN.”

    THIS. THIS. ALL OF THIS.

    • Raluca

      I like how they both sigh at the same time – it’s very well thought :)

      • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

        I thought maybe I was being a little over attentive at that point, but they do, don’t they? Their subtle movements in that scene mirror each other and it’s a nice touch.

        • Raluca

          Yes, indeed. It is so nice to see how subtle details can enhance a scene. :)
          Spike and Buffy are amazing together – JM and SMG have very good chemistry.

    • Jojo

      Oh, yeah. Well put!

  • stephynee

    I always get so much second hand embarrassment when Spike goes in to kiss Buffy and she’s like, “what” *shudders*

    • http://thelatepartygirls.com Lorraine

      For one second I thought she might let it happen. Wishful thinking, probably. But yes, B’s reaction, while understandable, made me feel for Spike. That’s rough for any person (or vampire. Cough).

  • Jessica

    I consider myself open minded. Im known for playing the devils advocate. But I can’t watch Buffy and understand anyone who doesn’t love Spike. I just can’t. I have an easier time defending Christian Grey than not-spike. This last moment and at least two others in the future are about as good as it gets.
    Also, Gale=Angel and Peeta=Spike. Right down to the “messing with the brain” part

    • JEL

      I just read the Hunger Games trilogy and the same parallel had struck me. Naq vapyhqvat univat gb erohvyq n eryngvbafuvc nsgre fbzrguvat greevoyr unccraf.

    • http://www.sweeneysays.com Sweeney

      I like what an interesting character Spike is, though I find that analogy kind of a major stretch. (Not just for Bangel v. Spuffy reasons. My favorite Buffy, across all 7 seasons, is single Buffy. Buffy/Buffy > Buffy/relationships.)

      • Jessica

        I know I’m weirdly unreasonable about it. It’s some kind of bizarre emotional connection I have to his character or something. And I do feel like Spike makes Buffy better. She’s more self-aware of her faults (knowing she is using him for instance).
        But really, it’s weird. I admit it. It a blind spot for me.

        I once made a whole list with a friend about the Gale/Peeta and Angel/Spike similarities. Granted, a lot of them are superficial things like dyed blonde hair and the chip/mind control. But I see some other things as well- Angel and Gale are the more stable and both end up fighting for the bigger picture vs. what they want for themselves (partly because circumstances forced them to).

        I’m not saying the characters are dead on matches but I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that she is a Buffy fan.

      • Jessica

        And I admit that THG love triangle wasn’t the best part of the series. But I felt like it was a little more natural. She didn’t have some epic love with either of them really. Just because the world saw her and Peeta that way, doesn’t mean she did. It wasn’t the driving force of her existence. I did appreciate that.

        • http://www.sweeneysays.com Sweeney

          In the context of this conversation, the THG love triangle looks heaps better to me. Definitely way more natural than the dramatic flare relationships on Buffy.

          And YES. One of many reasons I loved Katniss was how little time she spent dwelling on the relationships. “My life is in constant peril! The government wants to murder my family! I got bigger shit to worry about, yo!” That’s the best. YA needs more of that. (It’s part of what weakened Mockingjay for me. I loved Mockingjay more than a lot of people did, but giving her all that time to sit around in a bunker and brood meant that she began to fret about the the relationship dramz more than I’d have liked.)

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