Angel S03 E09 – Baby, baby, baby, ooh

Previously: Holtz rejoined the modern world, and everyone wanted Darla’s baby. Also, she went into labour.


Kirsti: We open in the lobby of the Hyperion, with Angel and Holtz right where we left them. Angel’s all “DAFUQ? You’re meant to be dead!” then joins the dots on the fact that the mysterious beastie the prophecies were talking about is Holtz. He starts to try and talk Holtz around, but a couple of green scaly demons jump up and hold stabby looking metal things to Angel’s throat. Holtz says that what brought him to the 21st century is Angel and his “demon bitch.” Angel starts in on his “everything’s different because I have a soul” routine, but Holtz flicks some holy water at him, causing him to vamp out for a second, and says that he sees no difference. He orders his minions to search the place because wherever Angel is, Darla can’t be far away.

Lorraine: While I was watching, I was struck by how this would’ve not been true fore 85% of the rest of the episodes we’ve seen. You can almost hear Angel cursing his luck.

Sweeney: Samesame. “IT FUCKING FIGURES.”

K: That’s our cue to cut across to the alley where Darla is screaming her way through contractions in the backseat of the car. Wes says that they need to get the prophecies, and Cordy “bitch, please”s him, because ain’t nobody needed any prophecy to give birth before.

Gunn suggests that maybe they need some Vaseline and a catcher’s mitt, and I throw up in my mouth a little. Fred, bless her, says that Darla’s not sufficiently dilated to deliver yet, but is now in active labour. Wes says that something must have happened to Angel and they need to move. He reminds Darla that she needs to breathe through the pain, and demonstrates in a way that makes him sound like a monkey. The others stare at him in disbelief. “I. DON’T. BREATHE!” Darla yells as she vamps out and knocks all four of them away from the car simultaneously. She then bursts into tears as the electric cellos do their thing.

Lor: She also takes a really deep breath. ‘Cause, you know. Human actress.

Sweeney: A couple, in fact. Pesky human actresses with their actual lungs!

K: This reminds me of that time that Angel told Xander he couldn’t give Buffy CPR as he didn’t breathe. While breathing heavily.

After the credits, we’re into a Terrible Wig Flashback. Holtz rides through the countryside having seizure cuts of his family. He reaches his house and runs inside. He kneels by his wife’s body and covers his face. There’s a noise behind him, and a little voice says “Papa?” He turns to see his daughter, who says in a VERY Home Counties accent for someone who’s from Yorkshire that her mother won’t wake up. Holtz hugs her and starts to sing her a lullaby before pulling her hair aside to reveal the bite marks on her neck. One of his men enters the house, and Holtz tells him to get out before sitting back in a chair and watching Sarah play on the floor next to her mother’s corpse.

Lor: UM. That little girl got over that trauma real fast.

K: Spoilers, sweetie.

Seizure cut to Wolfram & Hart. Lilah shows Linwood a picture of Holtz taken from the surveillance tape and says that they don’t know who he is. Daniel Dae Kim suggests that maybe he’s an old player, given that he called Angel “Angelus.” Lilah points out that this means he’s probably an enemy because Angelus didn’t have friends. Linwood asks if they’ve heard from their SWAT team types or the creepy obstetrician. When the answer is a big fat nope, he  insists that he knows nothing about their totally botched operation and that the blame will fall squarely on Lilah and DDK. Linwood leaves, and DDK says to Lilah that they’re going to get crucified. “They don’t crucify here. Too Christian,” she replies.

Sweeney: Lilah is occasionally written a bit hollow, but I do love her snark.

K: Agreed. Back at the Hyperion, Holtz’s demon minions are still holding Angel while Holtz goes through the weapons cupboard. Angel wants to know how Holtz is still human, and Holtz does a villain-y monologue in response about what he could do to Angel that would make Darla come running. Angel wants to know what Holtz had to give up to be there, and Holtz says that he had nothing to give up thanks to Angel and Darla. Angel disagrees though – Holtz still had his soul. He urges Holtz not to let himself be used for evil, and Holtz wonders out loud if Angel really has changed before punching him in the face.

That takes us back to the alley where Cordy, Gunn and Fred are trying to wake Wes up by slapping him. They inform Wes that Darla’s currently between contractions, and the camera pans across to show Darla talking to herself in the car. Wes pulls himself up and asks her if she feels up to travelling. She says that she is, and the Fang Gang pile into the front seat, with Fred perched on Gunn’s knee. Darla wants to know why no one’s sitting in the back with her, and promises not to throw any of them out of the car – at least not while it’s moving. Fred points out that the back seat is covered in amniotic fluid, and EW. Wes asks if they have a tyre iron or a throwing axe, because both ends of the alley are filled with Holtz’s demon minions. DUDE. YOU’RE IN A FUCKING CAR. JUST DRIVE INTO THEM.

Lor: RIGHT? Wesley needs to talk to A about throwing cars at people.

K: Hyperion lobby. Holtz punches Angel some more, and then a demon minion walks in to inform Holtz that they’ve got her. Everyone is slightly surprised when said ‘her’ turns out to be Lilah rather than Darla. Holtz throws holy water on her, and Lilah’s all “Dude, I’m a LAWYER.” She says that if he’s busy torturing Angel, she’ll just wait. Holtz says that when he’s done, Angel will be dead, and BTW does she know what Angel really is? That’s her cue to word vomit about the gypsy curse and Angel atoning for his sins, and Holtz is all “WTF??” Angel takes advantage of his distraction to drag a grenade from one of the dead SWAT guys towards him with his foot. He tells Lilah to duck (which makes no sense to me, because evil lawyer who wants to kill him), and kicks the grenade into the air, pulling the pin out with his teeth. The grenade explodes, throwing Angel through the doors of the elevator because it’s a magical grenade that doesn’t blow you to pieces? IDEK.

Lor: Apparently you can travel by grenade. Who knew?

Sweeney: There is literally no rational explanation for this beyond protection from The Great Contrivance Spirit.

K: At least have him be bleeding from SOMEWHERE???

Holtz picks himself up off the ground and runs over to the elevator. He peers down the lift shaft before demanding that his minions search the grounds. He then tells Lilah not to send any more men because he wants to be the one who kills Angel. She says that she doesn’t give a fuck because the SWAT team were there for Darla. Holtz is intrigued and wants to know if Darla’s been cursed too. She tells him that if he finds Darla, they can do business, but he says that his only business with Darla is killing her. He walks out, and Lilah phones the office to arrange a clean up crew. She finds the prophecy sitting on the front desk, and grabs it and Wes’ notes as she walks out the door.

Back in the alley, the Fang Gang are fighting demon minions. Darla crazies to herself a little, and then does exactly what I said someone should do earlier – she climbs into the front seat, starts the car, and drives it into the demons, killing them all. (S: Glad someone got their shit together on this one.) Then she drives away, leaving the Fang Gang staring after her in confusion. Angel walks up behind them, covered in soot, and wants to know what everyone’s looking at. They turn to stare at him as we fade to black.

After the Not Commercial Break, Angel fills the Fang Gang in on Holtz’s sudden reappearance and WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY STILL STANDING AROUND IN THE ALLEY??? Run away first, discuss things later. Gunn wants to know if Holtz is there for the baby, and Fred goes into one of her rambling speeches about how maybe the baby is meant to be a force for good but Holtz will kill it before it’s even born and thus bring about the destruction of mankind, and trails off awkwardly with “Have you thought of a name yet?” when she sees everyone staring at her. Angel says that he’ll find Darla while the gang find a safe place for her to have the baby. Wes asks if Angel was able to get the prophecy, and he shakes his head before walking away.

In Lilah’s office, a random guy in white gloves is examining the prophecy. She asks for a translation, and hands him Wes’ notes to speed things up. The guy says that prophecies are usually open to interpretation rather than being a strict translation, and she says that she just wants the gist of it. And to have it done by morning or she’ll kill his whole family. Down in the underground lair thingy, Holtz wants to know why Sahjhan left out the part about Angel having a soul. He says that he didn’t think it was important, and Holtz is pissed. Sahjhan says that Angel’s still the same guy he was when he was evil, only now he uses hair product. It’s dubious, but I’m going to award HANDSOME ANGEL! shots because I’m half way through the episode and there haven’t been any shots yet. Anyway, it turns out that Holtz isn’t pissed because Ensouled!Angel doesn’t deserve to be killed. He’s pissed because he’s been hunting for him in the wrong way. He asks Sahjhan if he’s kept anything else from him, and Sahjhan’s all “Nope, don’t think so.”

That’s our cue to cut across to Darla stroking her pregnant belly and staring down at the city from a rooftop. Angel appears behind her, and she wants to know why anyone would bring a baby into the world, because it’s horrible. He replies “To make it better, maybe?” but she thinks that maybe it’s to destroy the world once and for all. (L: What is, “Young Fiddy.”) (K: 1430, Lor) She tells Angel that the baby has no future, because she can’t let it go. Because she loves it, and she’s never loved anything in her entire life. The orchestra of feels strikes up as he says that they can raise the baby together. She tells him that it’s impossible, because she hasn’t been nourishing the baby during her pregnancy – it’s been nourishing her. Its soul has been giving her All The Feels, and she knows that when she gives birth, she won’t be able to love it any more. She starts to cry, and Angel holds her close.

Sweeney: I LOVE YOU, JULIE BENZ. Reading the summary of this scene it has a little bit of a LOL feel, because obviously that’s what we do, but holy shit Julie Benz tears gave me all the feels.

Lor: Absolutely. Pass the Snark Squad branded tissues.

K: Over at Caritas, the gang have just informed Lorne that they want Darla to have the baby there because the anti-violence spells mean that it’s a safe place. Lorne’s not on board with this plan at all because he’s too busy setting up the club for the grand reopening. Which includes finishing off the security system himself – the contractor he hired to do it hums while he works and so Lorne knows that he’s planning on leaving things disconnected and fires him. Back on the rooftop, Darla asks Angel promise to protect the baby from her. But his phone rings before he can answer. It’s Wes, telling them to come to Caritas. Angel asks if it’s safe, and Wes says that he’s sure it will be by the time they get there. In the background, Fred slaps Gunn’s face to test if the system is working. It’s not. Angel tells Darla they should go because there’s a storm coming, but she says something doesn’t feel right.

Seizure cut to Lilah’s office. White Gloves Dude has done the translation, and says that Wes was very close to cracking it. Lilah asks what it says about the birth, and he says that it doesn’t say anything about a birth, and it’s actually more of an obituary. The actual prophecy is “For surely in that time, when the sky opens and the heavens weep, there will be no birth, only death.” Lilah smiles to herself, and we fade to black.

Lor: I don’t know if you guys remember that Sweeney and I once proclaimed ourselves Snarky Prophets, but I’mma go ahead and prophesy that this prophecy is not all it appears to be.


K: I’m going to award you both a “We give good TV” for that.

After the Not Commercial Break, we’re back in the Terrible Wig Flashback. Holtz sits in a chair, the sun shining through the windows behind him. Two of his men walk in, and say that they need to go, to take him away from the house because it’s full of the devil’s work. “Not a devil, just a demon,” he replies as he looks at Sarah, cowering in a darkened corner. One of his men asks what they’re going to do, and Holtz replies, “whatever we have to.” He picks Sarah up and carries her outside as she screams. He throws her off the porch and watches as she vamps out and bursts into flames.

Back in the present, the storm has broken and Lorne is still struggling to get the security system working. Gunn is still being used as the test subject for said security system, with Cordy slapping the back of his head. Angel guides Darla down the stairs. The gang rush to get her a chair and she sinks into it gratefully as Angel pulls Wes aside. He tells Wes that Darla’s in a lot of pain, and Wes asks how far apart her contractions are. Angel says that the last one was about an hour ago, and Wes is taken aback. Just then, Darla doubles over in pain, and the gang lead her into Lorne’s bedroom. Fred looks down at the chair Darla was sitting on to see that it’s covered in blood.

Down in the underground lair thingy, Sahjhan says that it’s time for Holtz to do his thing. The security system guy that Lorne fired is there, and Sahjhan tells him to spill the beans. SSG’s eyes turn red and he speaks in Cordy’s voice and then Lorne’s, repeating their lines from earlier about Caritas always being a sanctuary. Back in Lorne’s bedroom, Angel asks how Darla is. Wes and Fred inform her that she’s tough and also immortal, which helps. But the baby’s heartbeat is faint and it seems that Darla’s body doesn’t really know what to do in terms of childbirth, on account of her having been dead for 400 years. Cordy asks about a caesarean like a normal person, and Fred says that they’re afraid that the mystical forces that have been protecting the pregnancy will end up killing the baby. Okay, contrivance. Whatever.

Sweeney: Darla’s whole pregnancy is a giant pile of, “Make shit up as we go,” that would cause headaches if we tried to tally the contrivance, so I choose to accept all the bullshit things.

K: Angel’s all “WTF? Why would the Powers That Be (Contriving) give us half a miracle?” and Gunn points out that maybe Darla is carrying the evil beastie from the prophecies and that the PTB(C) are doing everything they can to stop it being born. Angel turns and walks back into Lorne’s bedroom. Cordy glares at Gunn and deducts 20 points from Gryffindor for his honesty. She tries to whack his arm, but her hand gets jolted back by a blue flash – Lorne finally has the security system working.

In the bedroom, the Clarinet of Sadness starts up as Angel sits down next to Darla. He asks how she’s doing, and she replies that the baby has finally stopped kicking. Angel get schmaltzy because she called the baby “he” rather than “it,” but she says that she can feel the baby dying inside her. (L: Welp. That’s one way to dry up the schmaltz.) Angel tells her that she has to fight for the baby, and she says that she doesn’t know how. She rubs her belly and calls the baby “my darling boy,” and a tear slides down her cheek as she says that she’s so useless a mother that she can’t even give the kid life.

Out in the bar, Gunn wonders if he should apologise, but Cordy and Wes tell him to give Angel and Darla some time alone. Holtz walks in, and Lorne greets him pleasantly. He informs Holtz that they’re closed and hands him a flyer for the reopening the following night. Holtz turns to go, and sings the lullaby he sang to Sarah as he walks up the stairs. Lorne hums along for a second, then looks startled. He tells the Fang Gang to run, and they follow him, confused. Just then, a barrel comes flying down the stairs and lands at the bottom by the metal detector. A grenade follows it, and a second later, there’s an explosion and a fireball sweeps through the club. Fade to black.


Sweeney: LORNE! Poor, poor Lorne. Caritas is kind of like the Wiggins library, with its frequent destruction.

K: Pretty much. After the Not Commercial Break, Angel’s helping Darla up off the bed. The gang rush in, followed by a cloud of smoke. Angel asks what the hell is going on, and Lorne explains that the stairwell and the doorway aren’t covered by the protection spells, which means you can stand outside and throw stuff in. That seems like a pretty big oversight to me…

Lor: Yeah, but we’ve talked about it before. It’s the glitch in the vampire/invitation magic as well, but a naturally occurring one. I mean, you can’t protect the sidewalk, you know?

K: True, but considering the no violence spell makes stuff bounce away (i.e. Cordy’s arm from Gunn), surely the same should apply to stuff that’s thrown in the door?

Anyway, a flaming beam falls from the ceiling to land just behind Angel and Darla, and Darla screams a little. Angel says that it has to be Holtz, but Lorne says there’s no time to discuss who’s responsible and that they have to move his bed – there’s an old loading dock behind it that leads to an alley.

Darla, meanwhile, has decided that Holtz being back explains everything perfectly – she and Angel are being punished for what they did to him all those years ago. Gunn and Wes call out to Angel for some help in bashing through the wall to the loading dock, and he reluctantly steps away from Darla. He punches his way through the wall as Holtz BAMFs his way down the stairs in a billowy coat of doom and carrying a crossbow. It’s all very Van Helsing.

Like this, but less shitty.

Out in the alley, Darla tells Angel to leave her as the Fang Gang stand around helplessly. Angel tosses Gunn his keys and tells the gang to go get his car as he lowers Darla to the ground in the pouring rain. Fred refuses to leave, despite Angel’s pleas for her to go with the gang. Angel tells Darla that she’ll be okay, but she says that she won’t be, not after their baby dies. Especially not if he dies in an alley, because Angel died in an alley at her hand (well, fangs. Whatever).

She tells him that she wants to say she’s sorry, but she can’t, and that they can’t make up for any of the unspeakable evil they did in their time together. But that their baby is the one good thing they did. He kisses her hand and presses it to his face. She looks to one side, and tells him that he needs to tell their baby what she said. With that, she grabs a conveniently located chunk of wood and stabs it into her heart. Angel looks up in horror as Darla turns to dust, leaving their baby crying on the ground of the alley.

Angel picks up the still-screaming baby just as Holtz steps through the hole in the wall and raises his crossbow. He’s taken aback when he sees Angel gingerly wrapping the baby in his jacket and cradling it to his chest. The alley begins to fill with demon minions as Angel and Holtz stare at each other. Angel’s car pulls up at the end of the alley, and Wes gets out. Holtz slowly lowers his crossbow, and allows Angel and Fred to walk to the car unimpeded. Sahjhan appears behind him and demands that he shoot while he has the chance, because Holtz promised he would. “I promised I would show no mercy. And I won’t.” Holtz says. Fade to black.

I feel like this episode was meant to be really big deal feelsy, but with all the Terrible Wig Flashbacks and the cuts to Wolfram & Hart, it made things feel really disjointed for me. Darla’s big “I love my baby and will give up my life for it” arc happened in so many little thirty second increments that it lost a lot of its impact. I mean, it may be partly because I’m not a Snow and knew what was going to happen, but the whole thing felt like it just didn’t quite reach the heights it was aiming for…

Lor: Yeah, it’s got to be a Snow thing, because WHAT. DARLA. I kept thinking about how they would get this baby born that I didn’t see the self stake coming until just a moment before. I think the pregnancy was the perfect vehicle to give Darla a does of regret and guilt, without going the way of say, a sexpiphany. Julie Benz, ladies and gentlemen. 

The last couple of episodes, I’ve been saying something was building, and this felt like a payoff to me. It was a good balance of feelsy with just the right touches of humor (smacking Gunn. Giggle) and in the end left us with more questions and more places to go.

I did not expect this child to actually be born. ANGEL HAS A SON. WHAT.

Sweeney: We’re Snows who love feels, too! So, technically I’m a terribly impure Snow, with my knowing of random future details because Tumblr, so it’s not like this was all 100% surprise. HOWEVER, knowing random facts is not the same thing as knowing how you get to those facts. I’m not generally a fan of INSTA MATERNAL INSTINCT because of the implication that all women are just waiting to become baby factories. Cordelia’s mystical pregnancy played out like that and it was annoying. With Darla, though, I enjoyed it. Perhaps it’s partially because it was part of a larger redemption story. Possibly also because the mythological element of it was handled better. And maybe also because I love Julie Benz and holy shit what a final exit. Remember how stupidly Darla died back on Buffy? You’ve come a long way, my dear. A long way.


Next time: Everyone’s out to get Angel’s son. Can the gang keep him safe? Find out in Angel S03 E10 – Dad.


Marines (all posts)

I'm a 20-something south Floridan who loves the beach but cannot swim. Such is my life, full of small contradictions and little trivialities. My main life goals are never to take life too seriously, but to do everything I attempt seriously well. After that, my life goals devolve into things like not wearing pants and eating all of the Zebra Cakes in the world. THE WORLD.

Sweeney (all posts)

I collect elaborate false eyelashes, panda gifs, and passport stamps. I spend too much time on YouTube. Reconciling my aversion to leaving the house/wearing pants with my deep desire to explore everything is my life's great struggle.

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  • Clément Polge

    “I did not expect this child to actually be born. ANGEL HAS A SON. WHAT.”

    THAT. SO MUCH THAT. When I watched this episode as a Snow, I was convinced there would be no baby, because it’s just too game-changing for a 9th episode, AND THEN THERE WAS. I flailed for like 3 days after that, which made eating and sleeping pretty rough.

    Also, all of the feels for Darla. It could have been corny, cheesy, or just too over the top, but Julie Benz does all of her scenes so perfectly, and it’s really just the best send-off a secondary character could hope for.

    As far as the grenade thing go, I’m not a weapon expert, but most grenades are actually designed to hurt rather than kill (because a wounded soldier is much more interesting than a dead one, it’ll mobilise medic and transport, not to mention the damage to morale), so they’re basically a big explosion that throws shrapnel all over hoping it’ll hit someone. It also makes sense to me he’d warn Lilah, because he’s NotCrAngel now.

    It does raise the question as to why you would take a grenade to fight a vampire, but whatever.

    Also, I love that the episode starts with Holtz showing off his demons, because last episode seemed to imply that Holtz just BAMF his way though 3 squadrons with machine rifle armed only with his sword, which was dumb. Him having his demon army actually makes sense.

    Also also, it’s funny how Cordy stopped having mind-debilitating visions during Darla’s pregnancy, the PTBC must have taken a holiday or something.

    • Even throughout the episode, I was trying to guess ways they were gonna kill the baby. And then it was born. Darla certainly came a long way from the way she first died, but also, think about Angel way back when in his crushed velvet jacket, lurking in the shadows. Now, he’s a papa!


      I just liked that he traveled by grenade. It was super handy at that moment.

      Excellent point about the visions. When they were talking about TPTB(C)’s role in the protecting (or not protecting) the baby, I was getting ready for a vision. Usually when they talk about visions, they get visions, but nothing. I hope it’s a fun holiday.

      • Clément Polge

        Don’t worry, the visions will never come back and Cordy’s headache will never resume and she’ll become a famous actress loved by all.


        • I’m going to make you wear a bell around your neck in comments, so I can hear the troll coming.

          • Clément Polge

            Oh, ye of little faith.

  • Jojo

    I love Julie Benz, and I really the loved her humor – I. Don’t. Breathe! I also love the staking herself to give the baby life. It was a nice ending for a character who got more and more complex (compare to the first scene in Buffy, and wow). I am, however, completely baffled as to how Connor ended up with a belly button. What was it inside Carla that cut the cord and tied it – and there wasn’t even that little stem that dried up and falls off.

    I really did find Holtz having to throw his little daughter out in the sunlight and watch her burn up.

    This next arc is what I would see as the slow birth of BAMF Wesley, and too much of what the rest of this episode contains – a fair amount of meh. Remember all those good feels you had at the beginning of the season when everyone was all together and caring about each other. Treasure those….really…..

    • Clément Polge

      As to BAMF Wesley, I’ll just say this: episode 17. ‘Nuff said.

      Also maybe all the umbilical cord was Darla’s and just dusted with her, up to the navel ? Kind of make sense in that “none of this makes sense anyway” kind of way.


      • Clément Polge

        Also for BAMF Wesley: there’s that ONE SCENE at some point somewhere which is just amazeballs. I think I’m actually more excited for the ladies (especially the Snows) to see that one scene than for any other stuff going on in Buffy. And that includes houses falling down.

        • Jojo

          Rot 13? It’s not an I don’t know – more of a too many to chose from!

          • Clément Polge

            Oh sure, I’ll rot13, it just seem so obvious to me because this scene is etched in my mind… But each one has his own sensibility 😉

            Gur guvat V fnvq nobhg rcvfbqr 17 jnf pyrneyl nobhg Jrfyrl trggvat uvf guebng fyvg, ohg nyfb nobhg Natry gelvat gb fahss uvz jvgu n cvyybj ng gur ubfcvgny.

            Gur bar fprar V unir va zvaq vf va gur svefg rcvfbqr bs frnfba sbhe, jura Jrfyrl vf va orq jvgu Yvynu, naq gurl gnyx, naq ur fjrnef ur qbrfa’g xabj jurer jung’f-ure-anzr Ubygm’f sevraq vf, naq gura Yvynu yrnirf, Jrfyrl trg hc, gnxr n xrl, bcra uvf phcobneq, naq vafvqr jr frr gung irel jbzra va n pntr, tnttrq naq gvrq hc. Gung vf fhpu n cbjreshy fprar, juvpu whfg fhzf hc gur punenpgre Jrfyrl unf orpbzr fb cresrpgyl. Rira zber fb jura lbh gnxr vagb nppbhag gur snpg gung ur’f ubyqvat ure fb fur pna uryc uvz ybbx sbe Natry jub’f fgvyy orybj gur frn, jura gur ynfg gvzr Jrfyrl fnj Natry jnf gur fprar va rcvfbqr 17 V jnf gnyxvat nobhg.

          • Jojo

            Oh yeah – great minds do think very much alike!

      • Jojo

        Crap – I thought they named him at the end of this episode – I will go to the spoiler corner and flagellate.


          • Jojo

            Ooops – uhm…that really wasn’t me who emptied the cookie jar (wipes away cookie crumbs)

    • I’m having a hard time rounding up feels for Holtz, and I’m not entirely sure why. I mean, it’s a sad, intense situation to be sure, and one that calls for the sort of single minded mission he has, but it comes across a little flat and one dimensional to me. IDK. I have no real reasons.

      • Jojo

        Yeah – he is flat and one dimensional. It’s more a matter of putting myself in his place than anything else, and even then it really is contrived that daughter dearest sits on his lap and has no blood lust.

        • YES, THANK YOU – THAT! I thought the same thing, but there were so many other things going on that I didn’t want to get into it.

          Plus, we haven’t seen any child vamps in the Buffyverse yet — that I can recall — and I could see making up some weird new bullshit rules where they are concerned… but a lack of bloodlust seems to be a weird choice. (I hate to say these words, but the Twilight version actually does make a fair bit of sense, (*shudders*) though I don’t think they really explained it in the movies — basically, vamped as a child = frozen maturational development. Kid vamps have a degree of bloodlust that trumps any notion of self-preservation.)

          • Jojo

            I think the Annoying One is the closest they come to a kiddie-vamp, and even then they never showed him as a vamp. More like vamp by association. The real problem is that vamps don’t change physically and child actors do.

            And Twilight? I refuse to share my stolen cookies with you! And this is a matter of principal, not the fact that I ate them already!

          • I KNOW. I KNOW.

            I forgot about him, but yeah, I totally get why they have to steer clear of kid vamps on a TV show. It’s for the best — creepy kids are the creepiest. Basically any emotion, portrayed with children, becomes intensified. (sad kids are the saddest, creepy kids are the creepiest, happy kids are the happiest, etc., etc.)

  • darkalter2000

    I totally felt the same about the “It fucking figures” moment I also imagined him trying to explain it. “Well you see… she wasn’t, then I killed her, then she was resurrected as a human, then she was turned again, and now she is pregnant with my child. *beat* It’s been a little crazy lately.”

    Lilah fucking highlighting ancient scrolls. *shudder* I swear my balls tried to retract into my body when she mentioned what she had done. In a later shot you can actually /see/ that there is, indeed, yellow highlighter on certain words of the scroll. I don’t care much for most ancient things, but book/scrolls/tablets are SACRED as far as I am concerned. The way information can be passed down or recovered generations beyond it’s time has a certain magic to me. Even beyond actual Buffyverse reasons not to put a caustic substance, no matter how mild, on a scroll that predicts the future, I just can’t get over how cavalier her attitude toward this ancient text is. It drives me crazy, and it doesn’t seem out of character for Lilah. She uses resourses as she needs them. Preserving something for future generations is not her style. I applaud this character moment even as I condemn the actual action.

    I honestly see the earlier stuff about Darla trying to kill her baby as foreshadowing for the point in this episode about a c-section. Also if the baby hadn’t been being protected there was no reason Darla would have let the baby reach term. She was an evil vampire, the contamination of her feelings by the babies soul doesn’t start affecting her till much later into the pregnancy. The only way for the baby to survive was for it to have protection.

    • LOL. I love you so much for this rant on highlighting ancient scrolls. I beat Kirsti’s Inner Museum Goddess (or whatever) is right there with you, as am I, because of everything you said.

      I have to admit that even though I never read Twilight, I was very twitchy about this whole vampire pregnancy. When they discusses c-sections and how he should be born I kept flinching. The stake-birth caught me off guard mostly because I was thinking, “ANGEL PLEASE DON’T CHEW THAT BABY OUT.”


      • darkalter2000

        I read the last book of Twilight and that’s it. I hadn’t even heard of Twilight before reading the last book. I only even realised it was the third book a couple chapters in. I felt absolutely no need to go back and read the first two books.

        I only finished the one I read out of morbid curiousity. Also if I start reading a book I almost always have to finish it. The book was not good. Nuff said.

  • If I were Lorne, I’d do a protection spell to keep the fang gang away from my property.

    • 1430, friend.

    • darkalter2000

      I laughed at this. 🙂

      The Fang Gang are totally not good for property values.

  • SnazzyO

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE this episode. Julie Benz FTW. For me this was a real tour de force kind of a performance. She brings the serious funny with her batshit crazy in the backseat and her pitiful feels because no one will sit with her. And then she rips out MY HEART with the rooftop speech and the alley maneuver. I FLOVE this actress. And I despised her on Buffy. What a huge difference.

    I also loved Holtz. I loved how the writers make it so abundantly clear that the protagonist of this show was a SERIOUS MONSTER. And Darla (with her preference for baby blood???? *shudder*). Holtz had to spend the night comforting his monster child before torching her. That is some serious messed up shit right there. Do the traumateers have a scale of Character Trauma or something (like Trauma Level 5 for seriously messed up shit)? Because I feel something is needed. Or perhaps a Code …. like Code Orange for the average trauma.

    So yes, call me easy…. I’m totally TEAM FEELS for this episode.

    Also Lor Snow….your prognostication skills freak me out AGAIN. ***skips away merrily in spoilerland***

    • Clément Polge

      That trauma level thing needs to happen. I see a defcon-like system, with 1 being “everyone fall back in bunker of feels to cry all the cries and feel all the feels”, and 5 being “NO ONE CARE ABOUT YOUR SHIT ANYMORE”, all of this in a graphic and color coded and everything.

      • I think this is yet another something to add to Sweeney’s plate o’ graphics. I’d make it, but LOL. Paint.

    • JULIE BENZ LOVE. I know she’s gone now, but I might just randomly insert that line into random, future posts. She really did an amazing job, and her episodes and arc are some of my favorite Angel I’ve seen so far. Truly, the list is 1.) Happy Fang Gang moments 2.) Darla.

      I said earlier, but I’m having an issue liking or feeling for Holtz.

      I GOT SOMETHING RIGHT? I’d ask what but damn spoilers. ***sulks off to Snow land***

      • SnazzyO

        I’m sorry… I just can’t help myself. Not only did you get something right… you got something NO WAY YOU COULD SEE COMING. So… when it happens… I’m going to remind you of this moment and you should award yourself a Princess Prognosticator gif of some sort.

        • Clément Polge

          I… Huh… I actually don’t see what you’re talking about, could you rot13 it for me ? I I remember thinking something among those lines too on first read, but I can’t find it again.

          • SnazzyO

            Ybeenvar fnvq gur cebcurpl vf abg jung vg nccrnef gb or… naq V jnf guvaxvat bs Fnuwnua syvggvat gueh gvzr fperjvat hc gur Sngure Jvyy Xvyy gur Fba.

  • Melodie Hatley

    Only comment on this episode is the I DON’T BREATHE thing. Yes, yes you do, Darla. It’s just a conscious rather than unconscious action right now… because you can’t talk without breathing! Hehe. It made me angry all over again at the season one ender of Buffy with Angel saying he can’t give CPR. YES YOU CAN. I know they meant it in some metaphysical bullshit way, but he has to be able to draw in air and push it out to talk. With CPR it’s not the “mystical quality of magic air of life” that brings people back, but rather the fact you’re pushing air into water soaked lungs. THAT’S IT. THAT’S THE MAGIC. In theory, Angel doing it would have been better for her anyway, because Xander is expelling used and thus carbon dioxide rich air into her lungs and Angel would have been expelling oxygen rich air into her lungs. *flails arms*

    K. Done now.

    • Clément Polge

      I think we should just roll with it, they can smoke and talk, but that’s not air, that’s probably something else, like helium.

      Which probably explains Angel’s voice.

      • Melodie Hatley

        It’s just one of those things I have a hard time getting past. I DON’T KNOW WHY!

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  • SonicRulez

    I love this episode. Darla realizing that she only loves her child because she can feel his soul and that she will be physically incapable of it once he’s born is staggering. HIGH on feels for me. It probably helps that Julie Benz is phenomenal and really helps to sell all of the emotional scenes. She basically guaranteed a quality episode of Angel whenever she was around.

    Angel should probably stop visiting alleys, they always tend to be life-shaking for him. Being sired, meeting Buffy, helping Faith, the birth of his son, the death of Darla, Not Fade Away.

    Holtz delivers some real bad stuff down the line, but I appreciate the attempt here. It’s the classic Vampire Hunter story, but the hunter is actually the bad guy and the vampire is our hero. How telling that Holtz considers killing Angel justice for all of the things Angelus did. He treats them as if they are one in the same. I like those subtleties in writing. We know that’s the wrong way to view Angel, because Holtz is a villain and a bad man. You see that sort of thing with Spike’s insistence that all slayers have a death wish or Faith’s in S3 telling Buffy that all men are beasts.

    • Arian_foe

      I don’t see Holtz as evil or bad person: Angelus brought destruction to his like, killed his family and the guy is out for revenge. Then he dies and get brought back into the 21st century to continue with his mission.

      He is single-minded, yes. Doesn’t have any fucks to give anymore, yes. But I don’t see him as intrinsically evil

      • SonicRulez

        I don’t know where you are in watching Angel, but Holtz definitely slides. He starts off as a man understandably pursuing vengeance for what Angelus and Darla did to his family and families across the world. Eventually he begins doing petty and terrible things for the sake of doing so.

        • Arian_foe

          I’m on S03E12 and yeah, I’m starting to see that, with Justine U_U

  • Arian_foe

    I just knew the little girl was a vamp when she was left alive: why had she been left alive if it wasn’t to add to the torture of having Holtz to have to dust her?. I was waiting for her to vamp out when she was on his lap but it never happened. Weird, about the lack of bloodlust you have commented.
    Wow, Darla was so unmemorable on Buffy and look at all the development she got here! I was so feelsy when she staked herself :___(